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Call for Canada to regulate Catholic Church
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/jul/05071906.html ^ | July 20 | Condor

Posted on 07/20/2005 11:40:49 AM PDT by CondorFlight

Canada's national public radio CBC Radio has aired a commentary by a retired professor from the Royal Military College calling for state control over religion, specifically Catholicism. (snip) "Couldn't we insist that human rights, employment and consumer legislation apply to them as it does other organizations? Then it would be illegal to require a particular marital status as a condition of employment or to exclude women from the priesthood. "

Ferguson continued, "Of course the Vatican wouldn't like the changes, but they would come to accept them in time as a fact of life in Canada. Indeed I suspect many clergy would welcome the external pressure."

(snip) "I envisage a congress meeting to hammer out a code that would form the basis of legislation to regulate the practice of religion. Like the professional engineers' P.Eng designation, there would then be RRPs (or registered religious practitioners). To carry the analogy to its conclusion, no one could be a religious practitioner without this qualification." (snip) It should be unethical for any RRP to claim that theirs was the one true religion and believers in anything else or nothing were doomed to fire and brimstone.

(Excerpt) Read more at lifesite.net ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: canada; catholic; religion

1 posted on 07/20/2005 11:40:50 AM PDT by CondorFlight
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To: CondorFlight

Better not try it with the Muslims, though. That would be intolerant.


2 posted on 07/20/2005 11:43:25 AM PDT by Argus
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To: CondorFlight

Canada has relatively weak civil rights compared to the US. No Bill of Rights. Totalitarians and tyrants are a dime a dozen in Canuckistan.


3 posted on 07/20/2005 11:43:55 AM PDT by friendly (Man is so made that whenever anything fires his soul, impossibilities vanish.)
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To: CondorFlight
Then it would be illegal to require a particular marital status as a condition of employment or to exclude women from the priesthood.

This lib seems to actually believe government can amend the tenents of the Church as it pleases. A gross misunderstanding by someone to believes themselves to be educated.

4 posted on 07/20/2005 11:44:53 AM PDT by ladtx ( "Remember your regiment and follow your officers." Captain Charles May, 2d Dragoons, 9 May 1846)
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To: CondorFlight

In retirement, one must find things to keep the mind busy; like applying engineering solutions to religious questions, for example.

Can an editorial also be a troll? This one should draw a lot of fire for Prof.(Ret.) Ferguson.


5 posted on 07/20/2005 11:47:21 AM PDT by Captain Rhino ("If you will just abandon logic, these things will make a lot more sense to you!")
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To: CondorFlight
"Now what is the point of proposing this? I do it because I am worried that the separation between church and state is under threat.

And the state regulation of religion is no threat to the "separation of church and state"?

6 posted on 07/20/2005 12:02:06 PM PDT by Southside_Chicago_Republican
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To: Southside_Chicago_Republican

Not in Canada.


7 posted on 07/20/2005 12:43:50 PM PDT by RonF
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To: CondorFlight

The text of this commentary is contained in this thread: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1446930/posts

Personally, I think it was some subtle canook humor -- I believe that his tongue was firmly planted in his cheek. Not to say that freedom of religious thought will trump homosexual rights in Canada -- its pretty obvious that the Church will lose if and when the argument arises. But this commentary is, imho, more in the tradition of Dave Barry or Gene Weingarten, than some serious proposal.


8 posted on 07/20/2005 2:46:47 PM PDT by markomalley (Vivat Iesus!)
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To: CondorFlight

What the learned professor does not seem to realize is that his proposed reforms would give a religion with no point whatsoever. Or perhaps he does.

In any event, how does he square this position with his professed regard for the "separation" of church and state? How much more intertwined can they become?

Just another data point on the graph proving that you cannot be honest and think logically and be a liberal.


9 posted on 07/21/2005 10:31:52 AM PDT by chesley
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To: CondorFlight

It's all about forcing the churches to sanction gay marriage.


10 posted on 07/21/2005 10:32:39 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: CondorFlight

Why not just make all Canadians bow to Gaia, The Earth Mother. Then there would not be all these silly differences over religion.


11 posted on 07/21/2005 10:40:21 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: CondorFlight; nickcarraway; sandyeggo; Siobhan; Lady In Blue; NYer; american colleen; Pyro7480; ...
Catholic Discussion Ping!

Please notify me via FReepmail if you would like to be added to or taken off the Catholic Discussion Ping List.

12 posted on 07/21/2005 11:18:15 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: CondorFlight

BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba...COME ON DOWN! We'd love to have you!

Frank


13 posted on 07/21/2005 11:24:18 AM PDT by Frank Sheed
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To: CondorFlight

Ok, all you Catholics, what happens if Canada actually does this, if it actually requires clergy of whatever religion to marry gays, and imposes criminal sanctions on the clergy and on the institution if they will not.

Suppose the Canadian Supremes throw it out, but the PM invokes the "Notwithstanding" clause and overrides the Supreme Court decision.

What does the Catholic Church in Canada do?


14 posted on 07/21/2005 11:24:57 AM PDT by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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To: CondorFlight
Ferguson continued, "Of course the Vatican wouldn't like the changes, but they would come to accept them in time as a fact of life in Canada."

LOL!

Red China didn't want to change Church doctrine, it only wanted a government veto if the Church appointed bishops it didn't like.

In response, the Vatican told Mao to stick where the sun didn't shine and the Chairman responded by declaring the Catholic Church a criminal organization.

China rounded up and imprisoned, tortured and killed Catholic clergy and believers - even 80 year old Archbishop Kung.

The Vatican still runs the Catholic Church as an illegal underground movement in China rather than submit to Communist rules.

If this Christ-hating lunatic thinks the Church will stand up to Chairman Mao and Joseph Stalin but submit to Paul Martin, he's got another thing coming.

15 posted on 07/21/2005 11:27:00 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave troops and their Commander in Chief)
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To: Vicomte13

Napoleon is rumored to have told a Curial Cardinal in Rome "I will destroy this Church."

The Cardinal replied, "Be my guest, Emperor. We Catholics have been trying for the past 1780 years without success."

Frank


16 posted on 07/21/2005 11:30:24 AM PDT by Frank Sheed
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To: Vicomte13

See "prison population, repression, torture, martyrdom, China."

Frank


17 posted on 07/21/2005 11:32:17 AM PDT by Frank Sheed
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To: Vicomte13
What does the Catholic Church in Canada do?

Go underground.

We've done it countless times throughout history.

18 posted on 07/21/2005 11:32:25 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave troops and their Commander in Chief)
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To: wideawake; sandyeggo

Michael O'Brien has been alluding to this scenario for years. I haven't read anything beyond "Father Elijah" but I gather he has known the repression was coming for a long time. Perhaps his books hold the clue.

Frank


19 posted on 07/21/2005 11:35:38 AM PDT by Frank Sheed
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To: Vicomte13

If it does,it will not be the Catholic Church- but a mockery of Faith and morals and virtues...and this world can expect to see more tornadoes,floods,drought,earthquakes ect..because God will not long put up with this blasphemy.


20 posted on 07/21/2005 12:03:07 PM PDT by Rosary (Pray the rosary daily,wear the Brown scapular)
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Comment #21 Removed by Moderator

Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: CondorFlight

Rubbish. This guy is a just another crank who will no doubt get all the paranoid (they are out to get us) Catholics up in arms saying "I told you so!" This has as much chance of happening as of the sun setting in the east.


23 posted on 07/21/2005 1:06:33 PM PDT by jec1ny (Adjutorium nostrum in nomine Domine Qui fecit caelum et terram.)
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To: sandyeggo; Aquinasfan
The underground, unofficial Catholic Church in Canada will be born as it was in Czechoslovakia and is it has existed in China. It will produce great saints to illuminate the New Dark Age, a phrase I come by through Aquinasfan reminding me of Mother Angelica's excellent statement from years past.
24 posted on 07/21/2005 1:07:29 PM PDT by Siobhan ("Whenever you come to save Rome, make all the noise you want." -- Pius XII)
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To: jec1ny
Rubbish. This guy is a just another crank who will no doubt get all the paranoid (they are out to get us) Catholics up in arms saying "I told you so!" This has as much chance of happening as of the sun setting in the east.

I'm glad you appeared on this thread with your comment. Now I know to take this much more seriously than I had imagined.

25 posted on 07/21/2005 1:10:35 PM PDT by Siobhan ("Whenever you come to save Rome, make all the noise you want." -- Pius XII)
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To: sandyeggo; All

Operative paragraph...
http://www.defendmarriage.ca/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=92&Itemid=47

Now May be the Last Brief Period to Reverse the Tide

For several years now we have lived in a situation very close to the crisis which Germany reached when the National Socialists enacted the racial laws, when state-sanctioned evil was funded by a large number of its citizenry who regarded the acts they were paying for through taxes to be gravely wrong. It is a sobering thought that it all came about through the democratic process. Only hindsight informs us that unspeakable horrors were released precisely because an aggressive and immoral political party, sanctioned by the elusive "voice of the people," had attained the highest offices in the land. Thus, within a few short years, democracy was turned against itself in one of the most civilized nations of Europe, and as a result disaster spread throughout the world. It began with average decent Germans not understanding the nature of totalitarianism, nor of democracy itself, nor of the cost in preserving it. In the end they became "law-abiding" citizens of hell on earth.

And what of us? Are we all now to become law-abiding citizens of a nation that is destroying itself, that has already destroyed hundreds of thousands of its own children and forced taxpayers to fund it? Though we do not yet have the benefit of full hindsight regarding our own nation, we would do well to exercise some foresight and reflect upon what is next. Because there will be a "next" as the social revolution presses onward toward its concept of total victory. We must ask ourselves if, in a few short years from now, the uncooperative Christian or Jew or Muslim (or, for that matter, the non-religious classical democrat) will be considered "an enemy of the people." And will those families which fail to conform to State-defined notions of social hygiene be categorised as "dysfunctional," and thus undeserving of custody of their children? If we should wake up some morning to find that a massive infrastructure of conditioners has accomplished the total re-engineering of society, will we look back upon the present as the last brief period in which it was still possible to reverse the tide?

* * *

Canadian artist and author, Michael O'Brien, has written seven novels including the widely acclaimed Father Elijah, and A Cry of Stone. Notable among his non-fiction books are The Family and the New Totalitarianism and his examination of the paganization of children's literature, A Landscape With Dragons. His forthcoming novel, Sophia House, deals in part with the issue of homosexuality. It will be published in the spring of 2005 by Ignatius Press, San Francisco. His writings on the new totalitarianism can be found on his website: http://www.studiobrien.com


26 posted on 07/21/2005 2:26:25 PM PDT by Frank Sheed
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To: wideawake

Now I know what that tunnel was for they found at the border. It was for escaping Catholics. An underground railroad against socialism.


27 posted on 07/21/2005 2:48:30 PM PDT by IrishCatholic (No local communist or socialist party chapter? Join the Democrats, it's the same thing.)
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To: wideawake
Go underground. We've done it countless times throughout history.

There will come one final time when hiding is not the appropriate response. It would only encourage and strengthen the evil opposition, such that The +Church could actually be exterminated. When that time comes (I don't know when) we need to confront the source of evil and, if necessary, destroy it.

28 posted on 07/21/2005 4:18:50 PM PDT by steve86
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To: wideawake
We've done it countless times throughout history.

And we're still here whilst those regimes are dust and ash. *Nods* God is good.

29 posted on 07/21/2005 4:42:20 PM PDT by Romish_Papist (The times are out of step with the Catholic Church. God Bless Pope Benedict XVI.)
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To: BearWash

That destruction may be accomplished for us. The Gates of Hell will NOT prevail against the Church. But in the final reckoning, Christ will be vicorious, there can be no other outcome.


30 posted on 07/21/2005 4:47:39 PM PDT by Romish_Papist (The times are out of step with the Catholic Church. God Bless Pope Benedict XVI.)
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Comment #31 Removed by Moderator

To: sandyeggo

It seems that the Holy Father is correct. The "civilized" world of the West (he types sarcastically) will devolve into smaller and smaller enclaves of holy, Christian people who will teach their children the classics, study the great literature of Christendom, and cultivate personal holiness in small groups or even towns outside the mainstream making a living as best they can. The outer society will allow for temporary halts in the dissolution of civilization but the entropy will not be halted forever. Providence only knows what the outcome will be. Either a remarkable resurgence of Christendom or something only dreamed of. The final sentiments are taken directly from Hillaire Belloc's "The Great Heresies" in his discussion on the "Modern Heresy."

Frank

Frank


32 posted on 07/21/2005 6:42:26 PM PDT by Frank Sheed
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To: BearWash
Christ began with 12. Who is to say that He expected more to be around when the final time comes?

I have said that often and Belloc alludes to a similar possibility as an end.

Frank
33 posted on 07/21/2005 6:45:32 PM PDT by Frank Sheed
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To: Frank Sheed

Catholicism will always triumph over homosexualism.............no contest.
Let the games begin.


34 posted on 07/21/2005 6:53:34 PM PDT by CelticLord (The clear winner)
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To: CelticLord

Nar lagai Dia thu!

Frank


35 posted on 07/21/2005 7:11:26 PM PDT by Frank Sheed
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Comment #36 Removed by Moderator

To: wideawake

Christ's presence with the Catholic Church, even in the Far East, is irrefutable. Examining Japanese Catholic history proves this fact. Communism in China cannot hold back the Holy Spirit. God cannot ignore the blood of the martyrs--martyr who, like Jesus, beg God, "Forgive them, for they know not what they do."


37 posted on 07/21/2005 8:37:27 PM PDT by SaltyJoe ("Social Justice" begins with the unborn child.)
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To: CondorFlight

Sky tripper, I'd call him.


38 posted on 07/21/2005 9:35:30 PM PDT by Ciexyz (Let us always remember, the Lord is in control.)
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To: friendly
Canada has relatively weak civil rights compared to the US. No Bill of Rights. Totalitarians and tyrants are a dime a dozen in Canuckistan.

Perhaps you can take a moment to reflect on the totalitarians in your back yard. The Bill of Rights hasn't stopped homo unions in the US, nor has it stopped the ACLU from oppressing religious people. Child-rights activists in the US want to ban Jews from circumcizing their kids, and, if you haven't noticed yet, it's illegal to pray in US public schools.

39 posted on 07/21/2005 11:52:27 PM PDT by Ethan Clive Osgoode
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To: sandyeggo

Bump for the wisdom of Belloc in your post.


40 posted on 07/22/2005 1:04:52 AM PDT by Siobhan ("Whenever you come to save Rome, make all the noise you want." -- Pius XII)
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Comment #41 Removed by Moderator

To: sandyeggo

---And there is another point in connection with this power of Islam. Islam is apparently unconvertible.---

This is one thing about "The Passion of the Christ" that astounded me. Apparently, the CDs (all pirated) were jumping out of trucks in Muslim countries. I wonder how many are sympathetic in these countries now but cannot voice their approval? More than a few I dare say. Images can convey powerful thoughts.

Frank


42 posted on 07/22/2005 7:41:15 AM PDT by Frank Sheed
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