Does God So Love the World? (John MacArthur)

OnePlace.com ^ | July 21, 2005 | John MacArthur

[stuartcr]

OK, thanks.

[blue-duncan]

And He was right. I can remember my mother saying to me, "Wait 'till your father gets home", and she still loved me, I think.

[RightWhale]

Oh, yeah, it was about 45 this morning. It could snow any day from here on and we could have permanent snow in a month here in the frozen north. :)

[suzyjaruki]

b-d,
Please read #103 where I posted the reason for loving enemies.

[Corin Stormhands]

That's just wrong on so many levels.

[PetroniusMaximus]

Has God structured things such that the actions of man cause God to act differently then He would if those actions had not occured.

Example:

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Behold, your house is left unto you desolate."



God (in Christ) wants to gather Jerusalem to Himself - but they would not - therefore He does not.

[RightWhale]

Yes, it is. I don't know why so many people live here. :)

[Corin Stormhands]

There are days I think Virginia is too far north. And I was born here.

[PetroniusMaximus]

***Perhaps it is a total accident. I wouldn't put odds on it happening by chance.***

Have you seen "The Privileged Planet"?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Fru, this entire discussion is taking place not because of what MacArthur said about the elect or the reprobate or God's grace. Four-pointers and five-pointers can agree to disagree.

The problem with MacArthur's words here is centered on the unnecessary and incorrect slam he levels against his Reformed brothers and sisters in Christ.

Just like the "hyper" straw man, I know of NO CALVINIST who believes like the opposition says we believe. To say so, however, just makes it easier for them to criticize the Reformed faith.

As MacArthur writes...

"Pink was attempting to make the crucial point that God is sovereign in the exercise of His love. The gist of his argument is certainly valid: It is folly to think that God loves all alike, or that He is compelled by some rule of fairness to love everyone equally. Scripture teaches us that God loves because He chooses to love (Deuteronomy 7:6-7), because He is loving (God is love, 1 John 4:8), not because He is under some obligation to love everyone the same."

All Calvinists believe the sun shines on the saved and the reprobate. And all Calvinists believe that God's "love" ends there for the reprobate, and God's "love" extends to the elect as eternal bliss with Him in heaven.

No small difference.

MacArthur errs in his next step by denouncing Pink as "going too far" when Pink and MacArthur both agree that God saves according to His decree and not the will or whim of men. MacArthur simply wants it both ways.

"Unfortunately, Pink took the corollary too far. The fact that some sinners are not elected to salvation is no proof that God's attitude toward them is utterly devoid of sincere love."

"Sincere?"

"The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born." -- Matthew 26:24

MacArthur is courting the TV audience now. Too bad.

[ksen]

How does one simply dismiss free will in light of this most unambiguous verse?

The verse is unambiguous in saying that Joshua made a decision. However, it is silent on how or why he made that decision. The verse is silent on whether or not God had to regenerate Joshua before he was able to make that decision. All it says is that a decision was made.

[blue-duncan]

I saw that, but I can't find anywhere in the scriptures where God says that, except when He is speaking about Israel. In Eph. 5:25 Paul uses the same word for the love that Christ has for the church that Christ says we are to express to our neighbors and enemies, an unselfish, giving love. When we begin to parse the sentence or word to express a sentiment an emotion or a relationship, then we devalue the command to love and instead of being sacrificial it becomes convenient or worse, comfortable.

[ksen]

I'm comfortable with the realization that it is indeed a mystery that we will not ~solve~ here on FreeRepublic any more than it has been ~solved~ in centuries of debate.

Oh.....

Hmmm...well.....

Got any cards? I'm ready to learn some Texas Hold'em. ;^)

[RnMomof7]

The problem with MacArthur's words here is centered on the unnecessary and incorrect slam he levels against his Reformed brothers and sisters in Christ.

I do not think his doctrinal position is so far outside what most of us accept as truth , (recognizing a general love that God has for all his creatures)

The issue is closer to your words here.

That was an Ad Hominem attack that was completely unnecessary unless it WAS his primary point.

Maybe he has a book coming out "The Purpose Driven Salvation"

[connectthedots]

The verse is unambiguous in saying that Joshua made a decision. However, it is silent on how or why he made that decision. The verse is silent on whether or not God had to regenerate Joshua before he was able to make that decision. All it says is that a decision was made.

It doesn't say that Joshua was without out a free will to make the decision either; does it?

[Corin Stormhands]

Got any cards?

A Wesleyan with cards?

Certainly not!

[PetroniusMaximus]

***Maybe he has a book coming out "The Purpose Driven Salvation"***

How about the "Unchosen Harry and Mary"?

[ksen]

It doesn't say that Joshua was without out a free will to make the decision either; does it?

It doesn't say anything about the condition of Joshua's will, whether it was free or in bondage. It just says he made a decision.

[ksen]

How about, "In God's Election, there are No Hanging Chads."

;^)

[Dr. Eckleburg]

That is the paradox of the Christian faith, ctd. Six million Jews were slaughtered. Eight hundred thousand Tutsis was macheted to death. Three thousand people were murdered on 9/11. Children get sick and die.

At any point in time God could have changed the course of every atom in existence.

But life unfolds exactly as God wills. All things work for His glory. That is the great consolation. Don't miss it.

Trust Him and work for good in His name.