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To: P-Marlowe; nobdysfool; xzins; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock
I will agree that the offer of mercy to the reprobate and his call of the gospel to all who hear are sincere expressions of God's love, but only if the offer is sincere. In order to make the offer sincere, God must grant to all to whom the offer is extended the ABILITY to respond to that offer.

What does ability have to do with the sincerity of an offer? I don't see how the two are linked. The offer is the offer irrespective of anyone's ability.

Otherwise the offer is illusory. If the offer of salvation is illusory, then the expression of love is equally illusory.

That's true only if you accept the premise that sincerity depends on ability. A premise I have yet to see proven so I don't accept it.

14 posted on 08/02/2005 5:27:45 AM PDT by ksen ("He that knows nothing will believe anything." - Thomas Fuller)
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To: ksen; xzins
The offer is the offer irrespective of anyone's ability.

I can't help but notice that you did not address how that offer is an expression of Love toward the reprobate. If the offer is illusory, if the recipient of the offer cannot accept it and the offeror knows that when the offer is made, then the offer is illusory. If the offer is illusory, then the expression of love that the offer represents is also illusory.

MacArthur wants it both ways. He wants to pretend that God loves the reprobate and expresses that love by offering him salvation, while at the same time he knows that God never intended that the person hear the offer and made the offer in such a way that the person could not hear it.

16 posted on 08/02/2005 5:48:55 AM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: ksen
What does ability have to do with the sincerity of an offer? I don't see how the two are linked. The offer is the offer irrespective of anyone's ability.

I agree. Pelagius' main objection was that the command to obey implies the ability to obey. While the natural ability exists, the moral ability does not by virtue of the complete lack of desire to obey. They could obey if they wanted to, but they don't want to and will not want to apart from the work of the Holy Spirit.

That's true only if you accept the premise that sincerity depends on ability. A premise I have yet to see proven so I don't accept it.

A good point. If ability is necessarily a part of sincerity, then God was insincere in commanding us to keep the whole Law since none of us have the ability to do so.

I will say that I do agree with MacArthur insofar as there is a tendency to run from the smarmy, lovesick-teenager God to the opposite extreme of God having no love whatsoever in any form or fashion for the reprobate. All men are the image-bearers of God (even though that image be corrupt) and have inherent worth as His creation. I believe grace to be a measure of love, and as such God shows His love to all men in the grace poured out indescriminately upon them.

20 posted on 08/02/2005 6:10:14 AM PDT by Frumanchu (Saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone to the glory of God alone.)
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