Bishop Fellay of the Society of St. Pius X to Meet Pope August 29

SSPX e-mail ^ | 16 August 2005 | Bishop Williamson

[Mershon]

I will pray for the return of all heretics, schismatics and infidels to the one true Church of Jesus Christ, outside of which, neither holiness nor salvation can be found.

Christian unity exists as one of the four marks of the Church, as "one" as the Baltimore Catechism states clearly. Therefore, we must pray for the "return to the fold" to full, ecclesial and canonical communion for all those who, while being perhaps in the body of the Church, are not yet, in the heart of the Church.

We must pray for converion to full membership in the one, true Church of Jesus Christ, as Pope Pius XII said, "outside of which, neither holiness nor salvation can be found."

[Hermann the Cherusker]

Please note well that there is no intention at this time of resuming "negotiations" of any kind.

So what would Bishop Fellay's reaction be if the Pope simply handed him some papers "here are your and the others episcopal and priestly faculties for a Personal Apostolic Administration - go and do the work of the Lord" with no strings attached?

[jec1ny]

Re 35: I don't believe anyone has accused SSPX of being heretical. As critical of them as I have been I see them as plainly schismatic not heretical. I know of no one who has ever made a credible charge of heresy against SSPX. With regards your litany of charges against the late pontiff, that vast majority of those do not constitute anything more serious that poor taste. Admittedly, a few are cause for concern. But the only one that could really come close to a formal statement of heresy would be your # 6. And that may have been the result of an excess of enthusiasm. If we are all to be burned at the stake every time we state something regarding the faith that is false either through ignorance or an ill advised enthusiasm then there will be a lot of human torches. This does not however excuse his comments. I think JP II was often scandalously casual in his obligation to defend the truth of the Catholic Faith in relation to other confessions. But I simply do not see that as rising to formal heresy. Most of your litany of alleged sins do not even come close to heresy, and in my opinion none actually meet the definition. "Any baptized person who, while retaining the name of Christian, obstinately denies or doubts any of the truths proposed for belief by the Divine and Catholic Faith".

Finally I would also point out that the Pontiff is according to canon law the supreme authority in the Church. He is as such not subject to the judgments of others.

[Pyro7480]

It may satisfy some. Who knows but the SSPX.

[Dominick]

Stealing without attribution again? Ever hear that stealing some else's work without attribution is a mortal sin?

I mentioned this before in order to warn you about good posting manners, here and at other reputable places. Looks like you didn't heed the warning.

The second half of your post was lifted from:
http://www.traditio.com/comment/com0202.htm

This was posted without any form of attribution.

Most of these were debunked before. Some were amazing exaggerations.

[bornacatholic]

Now comes the quotation from Austria confirming that the Cardinal was indeed taking part in a manoeuvre. Who “forced his hand”? Was it John-Paul II? Some hidden power behind both Pope and Cardinal? God knows.

* I heard from a friend the forcing was done by a current Bishop who initially was a Nun. The Nun had a sex change operation in 1964, paid for by a Mason who lives in Transylvania. His name is Vlad the impecunious. I know, I know. That is what makes this whole things so sinister. How could He have paid for the operation? I suspect Roger Mahoney is behind the whole thing. (He sold Fatima Tours short early in 1999) In any event, the nun/woman now Bishop/Man was befriended by Fr. Moderator of Traditio fame and "Fr." put him in touch with a Thucite..and the rest is history.

What I just said is just as reasonable this psychosis is based upon.

Yeah, that's the ticket. Ratzinger lied his butt off on Fatima. Oh, what? You say Sr. Lucy confirmed everything putout by the CDF? Well, who can trust her? She went to the N.O. Liturgy.

And yes, they are nuts. Schism leads to madness. I was laughing when I read the stuff about Rome and Tradition, Tradition is represented by a schism don't you know :)

One can only laugh at such arrogant presumption even as one is saddened by the realization of what might happen to the delusional folks when they die EENS.

[Dionysiusdecordealcis]

The first half of the stipulated quotation, the half about Fatima, by itself renders the quotation attributed to Cardinal Ratzinger highly doubtful--it dovetails just too nicely and neatly with the fringe Fatima crowd to be credible. Thus I wouldn't take anything the article says seriously--it has all the earmarks of urban legend created to further polemics.

[TaxachusettsMan]

I did not choose to make those letters public. They were posted elsewhere on the Internet for all to see. I simply posted them here. (A little venial sin of rash judgment for your next Confession!) Anyhow, isn't secrecy the surest sign of a cult?

I love the way you Lefebvrians twist and turn things. Fellay did not "instigate a meeting" which the Pope "accepted".

Please, remember who is the excommunicated schismatic here - it's Fellay.

Fellay humbly (well, insofar as any Lefebvrian is capable of humility!) requested an audience, which the Holy Father graciously (after the insulting Circular Letters, that's being VERY gracious indeed) granted to him.

And we'll pray.

But read everything to come out of the SSPX - and that's a lot of reading, since it's coming out of both sides of their mouths! - and it's pretty clear: like their arrogant and disobedient master, Marcel, having been their own Popes for this long, it is very unlikely that they are about to go back to being obedient bishops of Christ's one, holy, Catholic, Apostolic and Roman Church!

[TaxachusettsMan]

I did not choose to make those letters public. They were posted elsewhere on the Internet for all to see. I simply posted them here. (A little venial sin of rash judgment for your next Confession!) Anyhow, isn't secrecy the surest sign of a cult?

I love the way you Lefebvrians twist and turn things. Fellay did not "instigate a meeting" which the Pope "accepted".

Please, remember who is the excommunicated schismatic here - it's Fellay.

Fellay humbly (well, insofar as any Lefebvrian is capable of humility!) requested an audience, which the Holy Father graciously (after the insulting Circular Letters, that's being VERY gracious indeed) granted to him.

And we'll pray.

But read everything to come out of the SSPX - and that's a lot of reading, since it's coming out of both sides of their mouths! - and it's pretty clear: like their arrogant and disobedient master, Marcel, having been their own Popes for this long, it is very unlikely that they are about to go back to being obedient bishops of Christ's one, holy, Catholic, Apostolic and Roman Church!

[JohnnyZ]

Anyhow, isn't secrecy the surest sign of a cult?

No, I think that's human sacrifice, or storefront "reading rooms".

[bornacatholic]

The sspx thinks of itself as the one with authority. They probably think the Pope should publicly apologize and do penance and then they might let Rome reunite with the real Church - the sspx.

This has gone on too long and I see no desire on the part of the sspx to quit its schism. If they do recant and renounce their schism, their followers will go ape. As a consequence of their crazy claims, the sspx has led its followers too far from Rome for any reunion in our lifetimes. Why "unite" with evil? will be the reaction of their followers

Their spiritual father said the Holy See and the Hierarchy was occupied by antiChrists. In the mind of their followers nothing much has changed

[bornacatholic]

additional proof schism leads to madness

[bornacatholic]

If he stole from a fake priest - "Fr. Moderator"is "fr Morriosn, a faux priest - does that constitute a real sin? :)

[sitetest]

Dear bornacatholic,

"You say Sr. Lucy confirmed everything putout by the CDF? Well, who can trust her? She went to the N.O. Liturgy."

No, no, no. C'mon now, get your conspiracies straight, man!

You really think that was the REAL Sr. Lucy???


sitetest

[bornacatholic]

si si, no no, has a long and well documented examination of the schism. Lefebvre clearly was establishing a petit ecclesia. But, we are supposed to pretend it is all about Tradition. They ain't coming back. This is all a sham intended to keep the sspx fellow travelers excited about Rome's perfidy - "we tried to bring Rome back to Tradition. They refused but we will keep alive the spark of Tradition until such time as the Holy Spirit breathes upon our spark and we have a Pope.".

Who knows..Maybe they will "elect" their own Pope. I am sure they could draft an "explanation" of the necessity of doing such a thing along with reasons why theh Holy Spirit supplied univeral Jurisdiction during this time of unprecedented emergency blah, blah, blah

[bornacatholic]

LOL good point.

[Mershon]

Perhaps. But of course that is merely your opinion. If true, your world view has a problem, doesn't it?

People who believed in Fatima and its revelations are fringe?

Sister Lucia
Blessed Francisco
Blessed Jacinta
The bishops of Portugal
Pope Pius XI
Pope Pius XII
Pope John Paul II
Pope Benedict XVI

Wow! Fringe Catholics.

[Mershon]

"I did not choose to make those letters public. They were posted elsewhere on the Internet for all to see."

But you chose to post them publicly hear to spread them, right?


"I simply posted them here. (A little venial sin of rash judgment for your next Confession!) Anyhow, isn't secrecy the surest sign of a cult?"

I am sure that there are many internal memos the Vatican writes and that businesses write to each other every day that are not public. Does that make them cults?

"I love the way you Lefebvrians twist and turn things. Fellay did not "instigate a meeting" which the Pope "accepted"."

I am not a Lefebrian. I am a Catholic. I attend an indult Mass thee times a month (driving 3 hours RT once each month) and a Novus Ordo (because I have no choice in the matter, the other time per month. I attend the Novus Ordo daily.

"Fellay humbly (well, insofar as any Lefebvrian is capable of humility!) requested an audience, which the Holy Father graciously (after the insulting Circular Letters, that's being VERY gracious indeed) granted to him."

These letters were posted by YOU. And it is YOUR opinion they are "insulting." Your own private interpretation, as you like to say.

"And we'll pray."

You'll pray for what?

"But read everything to come out of the SSPX - and that's a lot of reading, since it's coming out of both sides of their mouths! - and it's pretty clear: like their arrogant and disobedient master, Marcel, having been their own Popes for this long, it is very unlikely that they are about to go back to being obedient bishops of Christ's one, holy, Catholic, Apostolic and Roman Church!"

And you have obviously never read the decree on ecumenism from the Second Vatican Council nor Ut Unum Sint on how to maintain relations with those whom you deem to be "schismatics." Try reading them and heeding them. You are doing NOTHING to foster unity by your posts here.

[Mershon]

"I did not choose to make those letters public. They were posted elsewhere on the Internet for all to see."

But you chose to post them publicly hear to spread them, right?


"I simply posted them here. (A little venial sin of rash judgment for your next Confession!) Anyhow, isn't secrecy the surest sign of a cult?"

I am sure that there are many internal memos the Vatican writes and that businesses write to each other every day that are not public. Does that make them cults?

"I love the way you Lefebvrians twist and turn things. Fellay did not "instigate a meeting" which the Pope "accepted"."

I am not a Lefebrian. I am a Catholic. I attend an indult Mass thee times a month (driving 3 hours RT once each month) and a Novus Ordo (because I have no choice in the matter, the other time per month. I attend the Novus Ordo daily.

"Fellay humbly (well, insofar as any Lefebvrian is capable of humility!) requested an audience, which the Holy Father graciously (after the insulting Circular Letters, that's being VERY gracious indeed) granted to him."

These letters were posted by YOU. And it is YOUR opinion they are "insulting." Your own private interpretation, as you like to say.

"And we'll pray."

You'll pray for what?

"But read everything to come out of the SSPX - and that's a lot of reading, since it's coming out of both sides of their mouths! - and it's pretty clear: like their arrogant and disobedient master, Marcel, having been their own Popes for this long, it is very unlikely that they are about to go back to being obedient bishops of Christ's one, holy, Catholic, Apostolic and Roman Church!"

And you have obviously never read the decree on ecumenism from the Second Vatican Council nor Ut Unum Sint on how to maintain relations with those whom you deem to be "schismatics." Try reading them and heeding them. You are doing NOTHING to foster unity by your posts here.