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To: NYer

I have tried to see the difference, spiritualy speaking, between NFP and birth control. I am a diehard Catholic and I'm coming up real short about the differences.

For instance........why is the couple who uses NFP any more within the guidelines of Jesus' teaching than the couple who uses birth control. I'm not trying to start any wars here or trying to interject my own beliefs, etc. I am having real difficulty seeing the difference. A couple practicing birth control is trying to prevent a pregnancy as is a couple using NFP......someone please clarify. Again, I'm not trying to place a wedge, I'm just really trying to intellectually and spiritually seek some clarification. At best, I believe the difference in the two birth control methods to be nominal.


7 posted on 08/16/2005 3:41:55 PM PDT by Prolifeconservative (If there is another terrorist attack, the womb is a very unsafe place to hide.)
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To: Prolifeconservative
I assume you are excluding abortifacient birth control, which is sinful on a much graver level. I will only refer to non-abortifacient birth control, such as condoms, spermicide, and interrupted coitus.

***

If God gave you a birth control device as part of your anatomy, there would be no difference.

The God-given method of birth control is knowledge of fertility cycles and abstinence. If you use these, you use your body as intended. If you divert, block, or render infertile the sperm, you pervert the sexual act to exclude

(1) God, who is a partner in the procreative aspect of the marital act;
(2) Your spouse, who is no longer fully engaged in the unitive aspect of the marital act.

8 posted on 08/16/2005 3:58:40 PM PDT by annalex
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To: Prolifeconservative

Dear Prolifeconservative,

I understand your difficulty. I admit that intellectually, it's tough for me to see the difference. I accept on faith.

However, you ask:

"A couple practicing birth control is trying to prevent a pregnancy as is a couple using NFP......someone please clarify."

Here's a helpful analogy. A dieter is someone who is trying to lose weight. So is a bulimic. One does so by abstaining from overeating, the other by eating all he cares to eat, and then purging.

Both are aiming toward the same goal, but one METHOD is legitimate, and one METHOD is not.

Hope that helps.


sitetest


11 posted on 08/16/2005 4:05:05 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: Prolifeconservative
why is the couple who uses NFP any more within the guidelines of Jesus' teaching than the couple who uses birth control. I'm not trying to start any wars here or trying to interject my own beliefs, etc. I am having real difficulty seeing the difference.

This is an excellent question and one that many other catholics wrestle with. No need to don the asbestos suit :-). Perhaps the following can provide you with a clear and concise response.

"Apart from the issue of side-effects, which is decisive in itself, one must recognize the difference between an end and a means. Most of morality, in fact, is concerned not about ends but about means. The end, moral as it may be in itself, does not justify the employment of an immoral means. Having a child is a good end, but surely achieving that end by means of kidnapping is morally distinguishable from becoming a parent by means of loving union with one’s spouse. Money may be a desirable end, but obtaining it through theft, blackmail, or extortion, as opposed to earning it justly, is the difference between immorality and morality. Virtually everyone in the history of moral philosophy recognizes the validity of this distinction. Contraception violates the order established in nature by God between intercourse and procreation."
Contraception and Catholic Teaching

14 posted on 08/16/2005 4:19:56 PM PDT by NYer ("Each person is meant to exist. Each person is God's own idea." - Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: Prolifeconservative
why is the couple who uses NFP any more within the guidelines of Jesus' teaching than the couple who uses birth control

Jesus said, "What God has joined together, let not man put asunder." In context, of course, He was talking about divorce. However, the idea is equally applicable to contraception. God "joined together" sex and conception. For man to separate them, either by having sex while intentionally preventing conception, or by conceiving children outside the natural process, is a violation of God's design for humanity.

In contrast, the use of NFP to avoid pregnancy does not separate sex and conception. It simply avoids both, for a particular time. However, it's important to remember that the Church says that abstinence may be used to avoid conception only for "grave reasons" or "serious motives." Obviously, this is a very subjective question, but it's one that every couple is required to consider with real generosity. None of us can judge what is "serious" for another couple, but we can be sure that God is calling all of toward a conscientous openness to life, and not merely an objective acceptance of conception "if we have a surprise."

22 posted on 08/16/2005 4:33:59 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Officially around the bend, at least for now.)
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To: Prolifeconservative
I have tried to see the difference, spirituality speaking, between NFP and birth control....?

Well, prolife conservative, this is a good honest question. For me, it was like one of those optical illusion pictures where all you see is squiggly lines and then after you stare at it for about 5 minutes, you see the letters
"J-E-S-U-S" or whatever, and then you're thumping our brow and saying, "Why didn't I see it? It's always been there!" And from that point on, you can't NOT see it, it's so obvious.

I'm sending this link so you can take a look at an article I posted on this:

Delightful Secrets of Sex

And I refer you also to Post #6 which has more links.

I gotta get off now because I got some stuff in the oven... but I'll get back on the thread later and try to post some things that might be helpful.

45 posted on 08/16/2005 5:31:34 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Make love. Accept no substitutes.)
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To: Prolifeconservative
Not having converted to Catholicism until after my fertility years (and marriage) were things of the past, all I know is what I've observed.

NFP couples learn to know each other on a deeper level than "roll over, I need you, now" type coupling. The man learns to appreciate his wife for who she is and not just for the bedroom. He knows that sometimes, she just needs some hugs with nothing more expected. He learns to anticipate her PMS and defuse at least some of it. She learns how his body really works and certain things or words or ways are reserved for private time. She learns not to sexually tease him.

There's a 'feeling' that I get around happily married Catholic couples with children. Maybe it is the "Spirit of Life" or perhaps the calm assurance in each other's love. They seem to "know" each other on deeper levels than I ever knew my husband.

Catholics see marriage as a Covenant relationship not a civil union. Marriage is HOLY matrimony. It's like a new pair of doeskin gloves. You put them on, stretch them, flex your knuckles, and they seem to become a second skin on your hands. They're still the precious doeskin gloves and always will be, but they're also comfortable and when you take them off, they retain the shape of your hands. You don't drop them in the mud. You don't leave them in the sun. You keep them in a protected place. You put neets foot oil on them to make them 'better' -- not a really good analogy, but I think you get the picture. I hope you do, anyway.

61 posted on 08/16/2005 7:39:09 PM PDT by HighlyOpinionated ("A bunch of white desert raisins" NOT 72 fair skinned maidens. What sexist came up with 72 maidens?)
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To: Prolifeconservative; sitetest

The difference is very simple.

NFP involves the use of abstinence. It forces the couple to control and curb their sexual appetite, the lust of which along with gluttony and hatred is at the root of the concupiscence of original sin. It is always good for a Christian couple to abstain from sexual intercourse every so often to devote themselves more to prayer. If we do not curb our sexual appetite, our mind will become overwhelmed with thoughts of lust to the exclusion of God.

Artifical contraception involves the use of various measures to thwart the proper working of the human body. Its purpose is to allow full throttle indulgment in the sexual appetite.

Can you see the difference? Its not the end, but the means.

There is nothing per se wrong with the end of being married and not wanting a child right now, provided one does want children, and there in fact may be very good reasons for it because of finances or medical conditions. But the proper way of attaining that end is abstinence.

Sitetests comparison of artificial birth control to bullimia is spot on. These are identical disorders.


62 posted on 08/16/2005 8:00:59 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Prolifeconservative

Means are as important as outcomes in moral discussions.


64 posted on 08/16/2005 8:12:07 PM PDT by WriteOn (Truth)
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To: Prolifeconservative
For instance........why is the couple who uses NFP any more within the guidelines of Jesus' teaching than the couple who uses birth control.

Simple. Despite timing their sexual activities, the NFP couple is not doing anything to actively or artificially contracept. They are completing the sex act naturally and properly. They are also still open to the option of pregnancy.

This is the complete opposite of the contracepting couple.
70 posted on 08/16/2005 9:24:04 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Prolifeconservative; annalex; sitetest; All
For instance........why is the couple who uses NFP any more within the guidelines of Jesus' teaching than the couple who uses birth control.

Morality is a function of the interior life so that the moral character of external acts are good or evil with respect to their connection to the interior, spiritual dimensions of one's life and intentions in committing them.

That's a fancy way of saying that couples who use the external guidelines of NFP (concerning biology of the body) for the sole purpose of preventing children may indeed be committing the same sin as those who use artificial methods. The desire, ability, and intention to have children is a necessity for a valid marriage - even if in point of fact no children are sired for whatever (legitimate) reason.

The correct teaching of the Church concerning NFP specifically has to include proper moral considerations of why and how it would be used. I have noticed that these considerations - which are supreme - oftentimes are neglected by people who talk about NFP.

This is my way of saying that I - and more importantly, the Church - agree with your concerns. Look up the Magisterium's relevant documents concerning NFP (including the writings of Pope John Paul the Great!) to assure yourself of these comments.

I think your concerns and troubles concerning NFP are right on target!

164 posted on 08/17/2005 2:34:35 PM PDT by TotusTuus
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To: Prolifeconservative

A couple using artificial means of birth control have taken God and nature out of the equation. As the article mentioned, it is used so that the woman can be available for sex at any time. Natural Family Planning actually involves being aware of how the woman's body works, and respecting that sometimes, if the couple believes they are not ready for a child at that time, it is not possible for the couple to express their love in the coital fashion. It requires folks to understand that their 'needs' may have to take a back seat for a couple of weeks. It isn't going to kill anyone to go without, it just goes against the grain of our immediate gratification society.


243 posted on 08/17/2005 7:49:00 PM PDT by SuziQ
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