Posted on 08/28/2005 6:05:21 PM PDT by lightman
I had also been asked to speak in support of Recommendation Three.
I was in line to speak when there was a call for a vote and debate ended. Had I had the opportunity to speak, this is what I was prepared to say:
Bishop Hanson:
At the 1992 meeting of the synod bishops that I referred to earlier, I also said that in my judgment our ELCA should not ordain persons in same-gender relationships. I felt that as a church we simply had not done enough study of the biblical and other materials related to homosexuality.
After I retired in 1995 I began to get invitations from across the ELCA requesting that I address these issues. Now I had time to study. I read what our biblical and Lutheran confessional scholars had to say. What I soon learned should not have surprised me, namely, that equally competent and respected scholars had divergent views.
At the same time, I was coming to know hundreds of gay and lesbian sisters and brothers in Christ in our ELCA, including many in same-gender relationships.
What did I learn? First, that they did not choose to be gay or lesbian.
Second, that they believe, as I do, that we are made right with God by faith in Christ alone.
Third, that those in blessed relationships demonstrated amazing stability.
Fourth, that they love this church as much as I do and have no intention of leaving it.
Fifth, that many of them have incredible gifts for ministry.
We are obviously divided over this issue. On both ends of the spectrum minds are made up. I would appeal to those of you in the middle. You probably know someone who is gay or lesbian. You sense that change will come. But you are reluctant to be the one to vote for it now. When Recommendation Three comes to a vote I urge you to think about people, not just policy. Think carefully.
If you vote "no" you will be saying to fully qualified persons who happen to be in a same gender relationship that there is no room for them in the ministries of this church. And you will be saying to every congregation in every corner of our church, “If they call such a person we’ll throw you out.†Many of us resonate with the words of Darold Beekmann, former bishop of the Southwestern Minnesota Synod and former president of Gettysburg Seminary. How good it will be, he said, when we will stop looking at gay and lesbian persons, wondering what they do, and start looking at them as equals and asking what gifts they have to bring to the Body of Christ.
Why wait for that day? Why not vote “yes†and change now?
I’m sorry I didn’t have an opportunity to speak this second word to the Assembly. By sharing it with you and by you sharing it with your friends it may get wider circulation than ever. In summary: I’m grateful for signs of progress in bringing justice to our sisters and brothers in Christ who happen to be homosexual. But we have miles and miles to go. And in the meantime we have once again deprived ourselves of gifts that could enrich all of us.
Bishop Chilstrom was the First Presiding Bishop of the ELCA, serving from his election in 1987 at the time of merger until 1993.
In retirement he has become a relentless cheerleader for the gay agenda. Tragic.
Ping, please.
As a former ELCA Lutheran, I must say I agree wholeheartedly with that statement. All the liberals will eventually condone perversion.
I'd sure be curious to know how Mr. Chilstrom explains away Romans 1.
I'd be curious for his (and his ilks') explanation around Romans 6: "What then, are we to persist in sin that grace may abound?..."
This is worse than "simul justus et peccator", which alone lets people off the hook from endeavoring to leave sin behind and live virtuous lives. I guess the new Lutheran mantra is that one is always justus and there is no such thing as peccata...
One of the basic problems in recent ELCA theology is that Justification a.k.a. "the Gospel" becomes the hermeneutical lens through which all scripture is viewed. There is no use for any Law and no ethical demand placed upon the believer (except, of course, for the false trinity of inclusivity, tolerence, and diversity).
Same here. I was on vacation during the convocation and yesterday was my first time back in church. I felt uneasy and uncomfortable. The pro-gaystapo lady was sitting up front, all smug and proper. I sat towards the back and wondered how long.
I think you're correct. I was hoping it would pass as it probably would have pushed a few more out of this apostate "church". However, I'm beginning to become very cynical and thinking NOTHING will get most ELCA members to leave. They'll tolerate ANYTHING. Their loyalty to their long-time "church" is more important than loyalty to God's word. They hate what's happening but they refuse to leave.
I am grief stricken over this. My sheeple relatives are all still sticking firm. They always will. I have given up hoping to see them leave.
Tony: I disagree. If this were the only issue facing the ELCA, I would agree but this homosexuality issue is only one small part of the rot and decay affecting the ELCA. This is not a victory for the good guys. There is no church discipline and if Chilstrom's statement that he knows of hundreds of gays and lesbians in the ELCA is true, you've already lost.
The ELCA was so corrupted, we left 13 years ago. It's only gotten worse. You can turn back the hands of time 13 years and you still have an apostate "church".
Some analysts posting on the ALPB forum on line are beginning to conclude that the ELCA was fatally flawed from the very beginning.
According to these folks, merger talks between the Lutheran Church in American (LCA) and the American Lutheran Church (ALC) were going no where because they were very far apart on issues of congregational autonomy vs. Synodical authority. Then the "Seminex" folks (Missouri breakaways who formed the American Evangelical Lutheran Church, AELC) asked to be part of the discussions; they were basically the tie breaker that allowed the merger to go through.
While the AELC produced some good, orthodox leaders, such as Leonard Klein, it was dominated by those who were rebelling against scriptural authority as taught by Missouri.
So the catalyst for the ELCA were really a bunch of malcontents who did not want to be subject to the Scriptures, or to anyone or anything else for that matter.
The seeds of today's antinomianism were sown in 1987.
Hope your gladness is for real reasons. If orthodox Christian beliefs ARE prevailing in the ELCA, what would you expect to see happen, specifically regarding abortion benefits, queer clergy, local option queer blessings, Bishop Hansen, NCC/WCC/UN involvement, communion with the UCC, works-driven ministry, LCNA/RIC affiliation, etc.? What will it take to start a sea-change in the denomination?
Very accurate statement...the problem the ELCA and the root churches that formed the ELCA was the denial of scripture as the true and authoritative word. It's a pick and choose it seems with this synod and when you start choosing it's easy to deny even the most basic tennants of faith despite contending they are following the word as it commands. Being good and doing good become the focus and when that happens God falls out of the picture and it becomes a religion of man (think purpose driven life)...it is clear that this church has chosen to follow the blind rather than follow the radiant beams of Christ...
Let us all pray that the Holy Spirit rekindles the flame of the Gospel in all of us, especially those who are falling to the path of destruction!
Blessings to all
The Bible says we are not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. The ELCA hierarchy consists of unbelievers. To believe it can be reversed is like trying to push a wet string uphill.
It is time for all remaining believers to abandon the apostate synod.
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