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Lefebvrist bishop says no reconciliation with Rome
SpiritDaily ^ | September 17, 2005

Posted on 09/17/2005 6:24:38 AM PDT by NYer

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1 posted on 09/17/2005 6:24:39 AM PDT by NYer
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To: american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; ...
For those unfamiliar with the situation, STATUS OF THE SOCIETY OF ST. PIUS X .
2 posted on 09/17/2005 6:27:28 AM PDT by NYer
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To: NYer

It would seem that there is a budding schism among the SSPX. That's certainly ironic.

As I've posted previously, I'm in favor of reunification with SSPX on very generous terms. Including establishment of a sui iuris church.

Although I view the SSPX schism as primarily an issue for the western (Roman Catholic) church to resolve, the schism has caused a scandal for the universal Catholic church as a whole.


3 posted on 09/17/2005 6:56:03 AM PDT by RKBA Democrat (Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.)
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To: RKBA Democrat
I'm in favor of the Pope making it crystal clear these guys are excommunicated schismatics and that anyone who attends their Liturgies or in any way supports their schism is automatically excommunicated.

Inviting these clowns into the Church, unrepentant, bearing tons of noxious antisemitic and heretical theology and general lunacy will only halt the reform within that is well underway.

Let the sspx dead bury the dead williamson. Who cares..

4 posted on 09/17/2005 7:00:46 AM PDT by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic

"I'm in favor of the Pope making it crystal clear these guys are excommunicated schismatics and that anyone who attends their Liturgies or in any way supports their schism is automatically excommunicated."

"Our way or the highway" hasn't worked yet. I don't expect it will anytime soon.

The problem with schismatics is that over time, the reasons for their schisms have often been vindicated. The SSPX is no exception. The obnoxious ones who are schismatic for the sake of being schismatic will remain in schism. So I don't worry much about them. I see no reason not to welcome the rest back.


5 posted on 09/17/2005 7:09:45 AM PDT by RKBA Democrat (Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.)
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To: bornacatholic

"I'm in favor of the Pope making it crystal clear these guys are excommunicated schismatics and that anyone who attends their Liturgies or in any way supports their schism is automatically excommunicated."

"Our way or the highway" hasn't worked yet. I don't expect it will anytime soon.

The problem with schismatics is that over time, the reasons for their schisms have often been vindicated. The SSPX is no exception. The obnoxious ones who are schismatic for the sake of being schismatic will remain in schism. So I don't worry much about them. I see no reason not to welcome the rest back.


6 posted on 09/17/2005 7:09:51 AM PDT by RKBA Democrat (Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.)
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: Vidi aquam

There's a big difference. The bishops didn't leave the church.


8 posted on 09/17/2005 7:50:24 AM PDT by NYer
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: NYer

I agree that SSPX should be welcomed back on full and generous terms. Universal Indult and recognition of their clergy. However, it appears, that some members of the SSPX do not want a reunion, but want to continue in schism (Williamson). I hope and truly believe that Bishop Fellay is far more reasonable and hope lies in that direction.


10 posted on 09/17/2005 7:59:12 AM PDT by StAthanasiustheGreat (Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit)
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Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: RKBA Democrat
The problem with schismatics is that over time, the reasons for their schisms have often been vindicated.

Really? Like what? Gnosticism? Arianism? Calvinism?

Heresy is never vindicated, so if a schism is due to heresy, which SSPX has largely embraced, SSPX will never be vindicated. If the form of the liturgy is their only gripe, that, indeed, may be "vindicated", if only by universal indult. But SSPX claims that the so-called Novus Ordo canon is not valid and is, therefore, idolatry, is heretical. Many are sedevacantists. Neither of these reasons will ever be vindicated.

12 posted on 09/17/2005 8:18:59 AM PDT by TheGeezer
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To: Vidi aquam
The CPA "bishops" were never in the Church.

What Church do you suppose the men who are now Bishops were Baptized in? The Methodists?

13 posted on 09/17/2005 8:33:02 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: RKBA Democrat
>>>>It would seem that there is a budding schism among the SSPX. That's certainly ironic.

Not really, it wouldn't even be the first such schism. When you are born of a particular sin, you tend to repeat it, and the SSPX as we know it today was born of a schismatic act, the Consecration of the four Bishops.

patent

15 posted on 09/17/2005 8:45:54 AM PDT by patent (A baby is God's opinion that life should go on. Carl Sandburg)
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To: bornacatholic

>>> Let the sspx dead bury the dead williamson. Who cares..


I know quite a few good people in the SSPX, and I'll not write them off, personally. I tend to think that writing any one off is an entirely unchristian attitude, and contrary to the Gospel.

patent


16 posted on 09/17/2005 8:46:53 AM PDT by patent (A baby is God's opinion that life should go on. Carl Sandburg)
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To: RKBA Democrat; bornacatholic; ninenot; sittnick; Salvation; NYer
RKBA Democrat: "Our way or the highway" most certainly has worked. The SSPX bishops are all excommunicated as they ought to be. That works for me. Those who adhere to the SSPX schism are also excommunicated, as they ought to be. That also works for me. The SSPX is declared to be what it is: a schism and quite accurately so. Therefore its members, adherents, supporters or whatever are schismatic. That also works for me. All of these things also work for Catholicism, papal authority, church discipline, and recognition of reality.

JP II was in charge in 1988 when he excommunicated the SSPX leaders and adherents and declared SSPX a schism. He remained in charge until his death, earlier this year. Benedict XVI is now in charge. Neither JP II nor B XVI have changed the status of SSPX or its leaders or its adherents, who have, in any event, yet to prostrate themselves, sinful and sorrowful, before the pope. Hence no change seems justified.

There are still Nestorian heretics out there after many centuries. There are still Arian heretics out there. There are Utrecht's Old "Catholics" who started with a problem with Vatican I's definition of the doctrine of papal infallibility and now have the full gamut of exotic ecclesiastical flora and fauna. There are "retired" bishops who pass make-believe Holy Orders to dissident feminazis. There are those who believe that anal intercourse is the eighth "sacrament." There are those who adhere to the heresies crystallized in the 16th century. And there are the stiff-necked SSPX rebels who would grind papal authority under their fancy little heels in order to advance the cause of their offended liturgical tastes almighty or their ongoing rebellion against Vatican II.

As to all of the immediate prior paragraphs denizens, the Roman Catholic Church got along very well before it met them and will get along very well without them since 1988, now and forever if they choose not to knuckle under to papal authority. In their present posture, if they are ever readmitted to the Church, it will be too soon. If they want to crawl on their bellies in total humiliation, repudiating everything that is the SSPX schism and its leaders, and their respective "works and pomps" as it were, publicly pleading for forgiveness and renouncing Marcel the Malignant once and for all, then maybe, just maybe, with enough public penance as a precondition, the pope should consider readmitting them on an individual basis, each according to his public humiliation.

Until then, tooooo baaaaad, sooooo sadddd!

Study up on the Marxist notion of the Hegelian dialectic deserves your attention far more than does SSPX. Thesis (the Church as it was in 1988 under JP II), Antithesis (the nasty little revolution launched by Marcel in which Marcel and not the pope would decide whom Marcel would consecrate as bishops); Synthesis (Oh, well, who cares? The important thing is that we perceive some "progress" in the form of Fr. Recruiting Sergeant claiming that he has brought the unrepentant SSPX back to Rome with Rome ligitimating the excommunicated bishops and maybe raising old Marcel to the honors of the altar as the "patron saint" of those who despise the papacy and rebel against it). I'll pass. You should too. Most importantly Benedict XVI ought to pas as well as all of his successors.

What is it about the Americanist mentality that demands a complete resolution of all issues in a half hour or maybe an hour, less time for commercials, or we should be bored by whatever it is and accept anything in order to get it over with so we can move on to the next program, err, controversy?

The chances of SSPX ever being vindicated are none and less than none.

Sackcloth, ashes, peanut, nose!

17 posted on 09/17/2005 9:04:05 AM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: Vidi aquam

>>>Are you saying all CPA "bishops" are in the Church?

I think the safest statement is that you and I don't actually know the answer to that question. We know at least some are, but that's all that we know publicly.

The CPA is an unusual situation, and drawing conclusions from it to apply to other groups is difficult, if best.

patent


18 posted on 09/17/2005 9:06:40 AM PDT by patent (A baby is God's opinion that life should go on. Carl Sandburg)
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To: RKBA Democrat; Vidi aquam
It would seem that there is a budding schism among the SSPX.

Uh no. Contrary to the hopes of the enemies of tradition, Bishop Fellay and Bishop Williamson are on exactly the same page. Here is a statementment from Bishop Fellay, (pdf file)

Bishop Fellay Statement

Compare that to the full statement by Bishop Williamson posted above in post #7.

19 posted on 09/17/2005 9:09:24 AM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: patent; Vidi aquam
We know at least some are

"We" know quite the contrary. It is not morally possible to support and comply with the Chinese Communist baby killing (among other things) government and be a Catholic bishop.

Cardinal Kung Foundation

20 posted on 09/17/2005 9:15:15 AM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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