Posted on 09/25/2005 9:53:24 PM PDT by Between the Lines
In 2002, God dropped a pebble into the pond of Kay Warren's life in the form of a magazine article about HIV/AIDS in Africa. Three years later, the ripple effect has reached all the way from her home in Orange County, California, to Africa.
It's still gaining strength through the PEACE plan, a bold ministry vision from Kay's influential husband, Saddleback Church's Rick Warren. I traveled to Kigali, Rwanda, with the Warrens and 42 other American evangelicals in July, where they joined 9,000 Rwandan Christians in launching the first "Purpose-Driven Nation" initiative to harness businesspeople, politicians, and pastors against the nation's biggest social problems.
Kay told Christianity Today seeing that article was "an appointment with God … he intended to grab my attention." The news photos were so graphic that she covered her eyes and peeked through just enough to read the words. There was a quote box in the middle of the article that read: "12 million children orphaned in Africa due to AIDS."
"It was as if I fell off the donkey on the Damascus road because I had no clue. I didn't know one single orphan." For days afterward, she was haunted by that fact: 12 million orphans.
(Excerpt) Read more at christianitytoday.com ...
Christ Himself gave us the two new commandments - Love God with all of your heart and might; and, love others as you love yourself. Are you saying that your belief that the Gospel is the paramount activity of a Christian trumps these two commandments?
ohfercryinoutloud...get a grip on yourself...
One of Warren's consultants met with a local church leadership staff, and told one of the leaders to "bow at your pastor's feet". I would have rebuked him right there in front of everyone if he had told me to do that. These people are master brainwashers, as you said earlier.
I've read Purpose Driven Life. In fact, I read it, said "that's nice, if not too substantive" and put it away.
All I am saying is that it is simply factually incorrect to say that Warren tells people that they do not need to read the Bible.
Regardless of Warren's other faults (perceived or real), that's just factually incorrect.
You should get "The Purpose Driven Church" and pay very close attention to the attitude AND SPIRIT he displays about controlling the music, forcing the "resisters" out of the church, etc. Read that book and then come back and see if you still think Rick Warren is actually helping the Church. I maintain that he is destroying it.
These are direct quotes. Care to spin?
He likes the "small groups" because they tend to segment the church, further undermining unity, which he claims to espouse. "Unity" to Warren means "Pastoral control", not unity in Spirit.
I gave you direct quotes in response to your claim that Warren tells people not to read the Bible. You were wrong. I proved it.
You pulled the other quotes out of context. And no, without the book in front of me (the first chapter from which I quoted is online) to see it in context, I won't try to "spin" like you did.
I'm saying that the Gospel is the ultimate expression of love: for God, for believers, and for unbelievers.
What more loving thing could you do for an unbeliever than the give them the Gospel?
What more loving thing could you do for God than to present the message of His Son's death and resurrection to the lost?
You know, that's what gets me the most. I've never said he was helping the Church.
I'm not advertising for Warren. I'm not proclaiming him to be the best thing since unleavened bread.
I read PDL. It's fluffy. It's not incredibly substantive. But I saw nothing harmful.
I am not a Warren apologist. I simply just don't think he's the antichrist a certain contingency of Freepers want to make him out to be.
If what he is doing is ordained of God, it will be blessed. If it is not, it will fail. It's just that simple.
But Warren is following his heart and doing what he believes to be right. He's trying to make a difference in Rwanda.
I'm not going to sit here on my double-wide evangelical keister and condemn him for that.
And shame on anyone who does.
If you don't have the book in front of you and don't know the context then how do you know that he took those quotes out of context?
"My problem with Rick Warren is that he has been more responsible for dividing the church than any other single person in history"
You under estimate Satan, the world, sin and people. Remember books don't divide, people divide.
Exactly. It is happening in my church right now, but thank you Lord, our pastor is not on board. However the small groups are working feverishly to cause trouble for him and for the "resisters" which are still a majority at our church.
It is all quite sinister. I've observed the fruit of the spirit here and it's full of worms and rot. Nothing good has come from this battle unless you count the deeper digging in of the "resisters". I trust we will prevail.
Oh good grief ksen.
He posted two sentences 100 or so pages apart.
I quoted directly from Chapter 1 which is online.
Even without the book in front of me, I'm fairly certain there's more than one sentence on page 231.
And the fact is he was WRONG when he said that Warren said people didn't need to read the Bible.
Period. End of story. Buy the T-shirt.
I'm truly sorry for you and for all the people being dragged into this deception. I pray that most of them eventually see it for what it is.
I'll no longer waste my time responding to you. But please pray on this and sit with your Bible and Warren's book, side-by-side, and open your heart to the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
It is true though that Warren implies people don't need the actual Bible as long as followers can be evangelized with his juvenile but cleverly deceptive replacement (or pamphlets made from it).
There's the Bible and there's the Purpose Driven Gospel of Twisted Scripture. To put it bluntly, anyone who overpromotes the latter as the new "Windows and Intel chip" (implying biblical obsolescence) for the body of Christ, is probably leading a cult and not a church.
At the very least it's a powerful cult of personality.
I am sure that there have been a great number of men convicted by God through their wives. :) But who am I to ever call their conviction into question?
I think Warren's scope and objectives are too broad.
If you are talking about eliminating poverty, he is just another dreamer, the Bible tells us that we will always have the poor. But I think that Warren's focus is too narrow being that it concerns only one small mostly Christian country.
My biggest criticism of Warren in this venture is the strange bedfellows he keeps and their socialist politics he inadvertently endorses if only through association with them.
This is Rick Warren's optimistic belief of trying to transform an entire poverty-ridden, politically corrupted, drug infested country based upon forming churches around a book that he has written...
If Warren's motives are to bring glory to himself, so what? He wouldn't be the first preacher to do this. If so he will get his reward here on earth, if not then his treasure will be in Heaven. It does not matter because ultimately God gets the glory and His will is done.
But who's to say my voice isn't godly reason warning Rick Warren?
Unfortunately Warren does heed even the most sincere heart felt good intentioned criticism. If he did then he would have revised Purpose Driven Life by now. It is sad how Christian authors today when presented with valid criticism would rather argue their way in to a heretical corner than to admit that they were wrong or that their book is not a God inspired book of wisdom that will be accepted into canon some day.
Are you not paying attention? It has no hold on me.
I've acknowledge, more than once, I that I read the book and put it down. I'm not studying it. Not in a small group. Not advocating it. I've talked more about Warren on this thread than I have in months.
ALL I AM SAYING is that Warren is not the Bogeyman he's portrayed to be.
BUT EVEN IF HE IS God may choose to work through him in Rwanda.
What I'd like to know (and I believe it ties in with your posts) is this: does Rick Warren have a "sweeping P.E.A.C.E. plan to defeat poverty" from among the 20,000-40,000 members of Saddleback Church attendees? I see individual ministries named on the Saddleback website. But I don't see the sweeping statements and promises regarding defeating poverty from Saddleback that I'm seeing regarding his Rwanda efforts.
Not saying he can't do both. Just saying I don't see him doing this domestically, and among his own flock first.
No, I disagree.
Whatever other faults Warren may have (and I admit there may be plenty), I don't think he has ever intentionally implied that people don't need the Bible.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.