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1 posted on 09/26/2005 6:16:36 PM PDT by Mike Fieschko
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To: Mike Fieschko

Let us pray it is so.


2 posted on 09/26/2005 6:20:04 PM PDT by StAthanasiustheGreat (Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit)
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To: Mike Fieschko

Wasn't Cardinal Medina one of the good guys who stood up for Terri?


3 posted on 09/26/2005 6:21:39 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: Mike Fieschko; Frank Sheed

Oh, not this shi'ite again! The 12th iteration of this "prediction." Have we, like, heard anything from THE POPE, yet?


6 posted on 09/26/2005 6:38:28 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Start the revolution - I'll bring the tea and muffins!)
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To: Mike Fieschko

BUMP


7 posted on 09/26/2005 6:52:35 PM PDT by nickcarraway (I'm Only Alive, Because a Judge Hasn't Ruled I Should Die...)
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To: Mike Fieschko

I suppose if the SSPX said the Latin Mass but held Pride days; rejected moral teachings on topics such as abortion, contraception, and fornication; and taught that all religions are equal, they would not be required to make a statement about accepting Vatican II, since they would just blend into the crowd.


8 posted on 09/26/2005 6:58:25 PM PDT by charliemarlow
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To: Mike Fieschko
Well what a sober, reasoned and charitable analysis. An excellent summary of the situation, if I may say so.

Of course, allowing for a wider celebration of the Tridentine Rite (should it occur) should cause even the mildly curious to wonder why its celebration was narrowed in the first place and just exactly what went on in the months and years immediately following Vatican II. I see the Cardinal neatly side-stepped the question of whether Vatican II intended to abolish the Tridentine Rite and called the evidence "inconclusive".

Personally, I think the evidence points to some minor reform of the rite, rather than a wholesale abolition, but like many things which went down after the Council, the whole process seemed to get railroaded and developed a life all of its own.

11 posted on 09/26/2005 7:47:41 PM PDT by marshmallow
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To: american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; ...


14 posted on 09/27/2005 8:27:59 AM PDT by NYer
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To: Mike Fieschko; All
From Catholic Answers


PERMISSION WITHOUT PUNCH FOR THE OLD MASS?



Dear Friend of Catholic Answers:

Last Thursday Catholic World News transmitted this story, filed out of Dublin, regarding what might happen to what is commonly called the Tridentine Mass:

"Pope Benedict XVI will take action soon to allow all Catholic priests to celebrate the Latin Mass, a Cambridge historian has predicted.

"Speaking to a conference of priests in Ireland earlier this week, Eamonn Duffy said that it was 'extremely likely that Pope Benedict will lift the restrictions on the celebration of the Tridentine liturgy,' the Irish Independent reported.

"The Tridentine ritual, which was the universal form of the Mass prior to Vatican II, is now celebrated only with the explicit permission, or 'indult,' of the diocesan bishop. Some Vatican watchers speculate that Pope Benedict will announce a 'universal indult,' giving blanket permission for all Catholic priests to use the old ritual.

"In remarks to the National Conference of Priests of Ireland, Eamonn Duffy said that he thought the Pope would make the policy change in October, during the meeting of the Synod of Bishops. The topic for Synod discussions is the Eucharist."

"NO 'DEMAND' FOR THE TRIDENTINE MASS"

In about 120 American dioceses (out of 176 total) the Tridentine Mass is available on an indult basis. What that means in practice varies.

In a few places the old Mass is celebrated each Sunday at a normal time in a regular parish church. By "normal time" I mean that the Mass is not relegated to some weird hour, such as 4:00 p.m., but has a slot among the other Sunday morning Masses.

In most dioceses that operate under the indult, the Latin Mass is celebrated in a non-standard location (in my own diocese it is in the mausoleum chapel at the Catholic cemetery) or infrequently (some dioceses offer the old Mass just once or twice a month) or in rotating venues (one parish this week, a different next week).

Dioceses that do not permit the indult Mass commonly claim there has been no "demand" for it. Even in dioceses that do permit it, the Mass may be relegated to out-of-the-way places because there is said to be insufficient "demand" that it be featured in a parish context.

I always have found claims about the lack of "demand" to be disingenuous. They have a Catch-22 flavor to them.

Take my local situation. Who wants to attend Mass at an inconveniently-located cemetery chapel where the folding chairs are uncomfortable and the restrooms inadequate? In such a place there is no opportunity for regular parish life: no parish hall, no school, no rectory. The priests drive in from out of town and are not available during the week. There is little chance for "community."

Despite these drawbacks, I'm told that at the cemetery Mass there is standing room only.

In other parts of the country analogous conditions prevail. The sole Latin Mass may be at a parish--but in the most decrepit part of town, where drive-by shootings are more common than the pealing of church bells. Many of the little old ladies who are supposedly the only ones interested in the old Mass will stay away, and who can blame them? The result is a small congregation and thus no "demand."

Or, if the Mass is shifted each week to a different parish, no adequate public announcement is made. The regulars may know where to go week to week, but what about potential new attendees? How would they learn the schedule? When there is no evident growth in the size of the peripatetic congregation, there is said to be no "demand" for the old Mass.

Most important is the lack of experience on the part of most Catholics. They might well end up preferring the solemnity of the old rite--if they ever had a chance to try it. But all they know, if they are younger than about fifty, is that the Mass used to be in Latin--but they have no recollection of it.

That knowledge is too abstract to get them off their duffs for a drive across town to the one Latin Mass that is available to people in their area. They never have attended such a Mass and so cannot know whether they would like it and profit from it. Naturally, from them one can expect no "demand."

LET'S HAVE A FAIR TEST

Talk about a lack of "demand" for the old Mass will remain fatuous until a fair test is given.

Thirty years ago, if you had asked around, you would have found almost no American who had an interest in the cappuccinos and espressos so widely found today at coffee houses. But once they had a chance to sample these exotic offerings from Europe, many Americans liked them--a lot.

Likewise, perhaps, with the old Mass, but we won't know until American Catholics have been given a real chance to compare the Tridentine Mass with the one now celebrated in their parishes.

My guess is that there will be much more of a "demand" than Church bureaucrats expect. Nowadays about 20 million American Catholics attend Mass each Sunday, but not more than one percent of them attend the old Mass. What might that percentage be if the old Mass truly were widely available? I suspect it would be well into the double digits.

So back to Eamonn Duffy. He speculates that Pope Benedict will give universal permission for priests of the Latin rite to celebrate the old Mass. Let's say that happens. Then what? My guess: not much.

Why? Because most priests will not want to buck the expressed or implied wishes of diocesan bureaucrats.

It's easy for a priest's life to become purgatorial if he does something not to the liking of the "liturgical experts." Many priests who might want to provide the old Mass for their parishioners--imagine dedicating one out of five Mass slots to the old liturgy--will shy away from the hassle they would expect to receive from higher ups.

I hope Duffy is correct in his surmise about what the Pope will do, and I hope there would be no foot-dragging if the Pope does issue a universal permission. But ...

In economics competition is a good thing: Widgets end up better made if there are several makers of widgets.

Similarly, in religious worship competition can be a good thing: The new Mass (which is not so new any more) will be celebrated more reverently and more effectively if congregants have the option of going to church an hour earlier or later and attending the old Mass.

There is something to be said for voting with one's feet.
16 posted on 09/27/2005 10:32:54 AM PDT by NYer
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To: Mike Fieschko; Tax-chick; All

http://whispersintheloggia.blogspot.com/2005/09/little-cape-goes-long-way.html#comments

Whispers is struggling to play down the role of Medina Estevez since he is now a senior with no "heavy portfolio". However, the comments here indicate his proximity to Pope Benedict (see the comment by Savage) and other comments have indicated his familiarity with the SSPX negotiations.

The Holy Father has said nothing; true. There is a lot of smoke all of a sudden, however. If someone thought the conversation with Fellay came "of a sudden" they are deluding themselves. I don't know what is afoot, but something. I have waited 40 years. I can wait more. All will come in God's good time.

Francis


21 posted on 09/27/2005 4:27:45 PM PDT by Frank Sheed ("Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions." ~GK Chesterton.)
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