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Jesuit Official Rips Expected Ban on Gays
news.yahoo.com ^ | Sept 30, 2005 | RACHEL ZOLL

Posted on 09/30/2005 11:50:24 AM PDT by Antioch

A top Jesuit official has been contacting leaders of the Roman Catholic Church to protest a soon-to-be-released Vatican document that is expected to reinforce the teaching that gays are not welcome in the priesthood.

The Rev. Gerald Chojnacki, head of the New York Province of the Society of Jesus, said in a letter to his priests that he was asking bishops to tell Vatican officials who are drafting the policy "of the great harm this will cause many good priests and the Catholic faithful."

Chojnacki wrote in the letter, dated Monday, that he had participated in the funerals of several gay Jesuit clergy over the last few years.

"I find it insulting to demean their memory and their years of service by even hinting that they were unfit for priesthood because of their sexual orientation," he wrote.

Chojnacki said he would be working with the Conference of Major Superiors, which represents leaders of religious orders in the United States including the Jesuits, Franciscans and others, and with bishops to fight "for the opportunity of a gay person to say yes to God's call in celibate service of priesthood and chaste religious life."

A priest who supports the protest provided the letter to The Associated Press. A spokesman for the New York province did not respond to a request for comment Friday.

A Vatican official said last week that the upcoming "instruction" from the Vatican's Congregation for Catholic Education will reaffirm the church's belief that homosexuals should not be ordained.

In recent decades, Vatican officials have stated several times that gays should not become priests because their sexual orientation is "intrinsically disordered" and makes them unsuitable for ministry. A Vatican-directed evaluation of all 229 U.S. seminaries is underway, and is looking for "evidence of homosexuality" in the schools among other issues, such as whether their instruction keeps with church teaching.

The evaluation was organized in response to the clergy sex abuse crisis.

Priests in religious orders throughout the country said in interviews that anger is building among their members about the prospect of a ban on gay seminarians.

Some have said clergy are considering staging a strike on a Sunday, to show how critical gay priests are to serving the church. Priests who had not disclosed their sexual orientation to parishioners are now thinking about coming out and denouncing the idea of a ban. Others have talked about signing their names to a protest letter to the Vatican.

Estimates of the numbers of gays in the priesthood vary from 25 percent to 50 percent. About one-third of the 42,500 U.S. priests are members of religious orders.


TOPICS: Activism; Catholic; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: benedictxvi; homosexualagenda; jesuits; religiousleft
...Some have said clergy are considering staging a strike on a Sunday, to show how critical gay priests are to serving the church....

It would have been unlikely for this priest to have made such a call to "strike" if he did not consider his identity primarily as homosexual, secondarily as persecuted legal defendent, and peripherally as a Catholic priest. This is exactly what the apostolic visitations are about.

1 posted on 09/30/2005 11:50:28 AM PDT by Antioch
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To: Antioch

The Rev. Gerald Chojnacki, head of the New York Province of the Society of Jesus, said in a letter to his priests that he was asking bishops to tell Vatican officials who are drafting the policy "of the great harm this will cause many good priests and the Catholic faithful."




Ya know, I am not even a Catholic and even I know that you cannot be a "good priest" and be a homo-perve.


2 posted on 09/30/2005 11:53:31 AM PDT by trubluolyguy (I am conservative. That is NOT the same thing as Republican. Don't place party over principle.)
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To: Antioch

Sorry Fr. Chojnacki. You are just plain WRONG on this one.


3 posted on 09/30/2005 11:53:56 AM PDT by 43north (If you're not liberal at 20 you have no heart. If you're still liberal at 40 you have no brain.)
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To: Antioch

Sounds like this poor Jesuit "priest" needs a copy of the book; SO HiGH THE PRICE a book on the reality of HELL and the sins which can lead there !
Lord have mercy!


4 posted on 09/30/2005 12:05:29 PM PDT by Rosary (Pray the rosary daily,wear the Brown scapular)
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To: Antioch

As a semi outsider, it appears that the Western Catholics are increasingly going against Rome. Similar in the Anglican church.

How long till a split?


5 posted on 09/30/2005 12:07:38 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Antioch

That last paragraph surprises me. I have not heard that estimate before. Whose is it? Where did they get it? How was it surveyed or calculated? What is the source? Thank goodness for the careful research and rigorous honesty of the press, or I might have to doubt those percentages.


6 posted on 09/30/2005 12:22:22 PM PDT by baa39
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To: Rosary
Image Hosted by ImageShack.us
7 posted on 09/30/2005 12:26:06 PM PDT by Antioch (Flannery O'Connor: “evil is not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be endured”)
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To: redgolum

Hi, if you're not Catholic, or especially if you're in one of the Protestant sects, I can see how a "split" (schism) could appear as an inevitable thing based on ideologies and practices. However, the strange thing about Catholics, even if they don't believe all the dictates of their religion, or follow them, or even attend Mass, there is something unifying about being a member of "the universal church" and the feeling of being tied to the Holy Father is very strong. Even those who might be fallen away and argue against papal infallibility or things like that, when asked it they want to form a separate church, would probably say No, they just want the one they're in to modify some things.

Interestingly, the only significant split is the SPPX movement, and that is a rebound back to the past, more tradition, in their belief, more orthodoxy. It's not the liberals on the forefront who would cause a split, it's those who feel the Church has "progressed" too far.

Others may be able to enlighten us more on this subject.
But being Catholic is similar to being Jewish, even if you don't belief it, you still identify with it.


8 posted on 09/30/2005 12:28:19 PM PDT by baa39
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To: Antioch
Tough. Enough of the queer priests that snuck into the priesthood in the liberal 1970s. Time to clean house and Pope Benedict IV's nickname is indeed "The Rottweiler of God."


9 posted on 09/30/2005 12:32:09 PM PDT by FormerACLUmember
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To: baa39

So, we shouldn't expect to see a Metropolitan Catholic Church in the near-term future?


10 posted on 09/30/2005 12:32:28 PM PDT by SmithL (There are a lot of people that hate Bush more than they hate terrorists)
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To: baa39
I have been following these threads for a while, and there has been many talks of parts of the Western countries RC bishops leaving over this and other issues. That is why I wondered aloud if that was the beginning of a split.

On this side of the Rhine, we are having our own little civil war in the ELCA over similar things.
11 posted on 09/30/2005 12:52:02 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: redgolum
Western Catholics are increasingly going against Rome

We'll probably see more differentiation between liberal and conservative parishes. One intriguing scenario is that when the universal indult is granted, as expected, for the Tridentine Mass, some Novus Ordo parishes will either go Trindentine or part-time Tridentine, and others stay full time Novus Ordo. Then the former will take on the conservative outlook in general, -- not just in liturgical issues but in terms of obedience to Rome, political conservatism, and theological orthodoxy. The latter will absorb the cafeteria Catholics who tend to be liberal. The two rites will coexist, both will remain Catholic, and there will be less confusion. Note that in Catholicism tension between rites and between the bishops and the Pope is common and does not amount to a schism.

Those who genuinely are incomfortable with primacy of Rome can always join the Episcopalians one by one.

12 posted on 09/30/2005 12:55:03 PM PDT by annalex
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To: annalex
What is interesting, in a sick way, is that I can go with my wife to church three blocks from my house, but I insist she goes 20 miles away. The one in town is totally different and very much more loosy gooesy than the one in Moline. Again, as one on the outside it appears that there is a schism already in place, but it hasn't been formalized.
13 posted on 09/30/2005 12:59:45 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Antioch

"Jesuit Official Rips Expected Ban on Gays"

"As Expected, Jesuit Official Rips Expected Ban on Gays"


14 posted on 09/30/2005 1:18:25 PM PDT by Aristotle721 (The Recovering Choir Director - www.cantemusdomino.net/blog)
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To: Antioch
Chojnacki wrote in the letter, dated Monday, that he had participated in the funerals of several gay Jesuit clergy over the last few years.

Ages? Causes of death? I'm willing to bet we aren't talking about 80 y.o. priests who died due to traffic accidents.

15 posted on 09/30/2005 1:18:28 PM PDT by bornacatholic
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To: redgolum
What is interesting, in a sick way, is that I can go with my wife to church three blocks from my house, but I insist she goes 20 miles away.

My wife and I do the exact same thing. Every Sunday we pass our local parish one block away from our house to take a 45 minute car-ride to the Latin Mass.

Reverent liturgy is worth it.

16 posted on 09/30/2005 1:24:12 PM PDT by Claud
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To: redgolum; Hermann the Cherusker

Choosing one parish over another, or one rite over another, is no schism. Not even informal schism.

A church is Catholic if a licitly ordained priest consecrates a valid Eucharist in it and the rubrics of the appropriate rite are followed. That is all. Larger towns have several Eastern Catholic rites as well as the Latin rite. People drive to the mass of their chosen rite. If it is too far, they go to the mass they can get to, and go to the preferred rite on holidays, or when an occasion presents itself. Novus ordo is just one more rite. These are all normal Catholic behavior. No schism.

If a Catholic chooses a geographically remote parish of the same rite, it is a bit problematic, but it does not constitute a schism. It is a mild insubordination at the most, particularly if the reasons are better conformance at the farther parish. Remember, people belong to the Catholic Church as a whole, they do not belong to a rite. They register at a parish for reasons of fundraising mostly. Hermann may wish to correct me if I am wrong on this score.

The current situation is abnormal, because the indult is not universal. So SSPX ordained illicit priests and that is a schism. The universal indult will heal that, because Tridentine and Novus Ordo will coexist as equally accessible in principle rites, just like the situation with the Eastern rites. Of course, some schismatic SSPX members wil probably stay in schism for reasons other than the rite, e.g. sedevacantism or opposition to ecumenism. But these will be few.


17 posted on 09/30/2005 1:24:50 PM PDT by annalex
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To: baa39; redgolum

That's in part why all the polls saying Catholics believe in abortion at the same rate as the population as a whole are so wrong: anyone baptized a Catholic thinks they are one, no matter what else they believe or do.

Fact is, about half the Catholics in the United States are "split" from the Church, primarily because of persistent mortal sin: they're gay, or divorced and remarried, practice birth control, advocate abortion, etc. But they still present themselves for communion... and they don't mind commenting on how big a tent the Church is...

Everyone I ever met from SSPX did none of the above at least.


18 posted on 09/30/2005 1:28:51 PM PDT by WriteOn (Truth)
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To: baa39
Interestingly, the only significant split is the SPPX movement, and that is a rebound back to the past, more tradition, in their belief, more orthodoxy. It's not the liberals on the forefront who would cause a split, it's those who feel the Church has "progressed" too far.

Nope, it's the liberals who drive people out, who insist on them being "inclusive". They take over an institution, and purge, or at least silence, the opposition,which finally has to leave in self-defense.

I'm not a Catholic, and don't really care what happens to it as an institution, although I suspect it will be around long after the personalities and issues of today are forgotten by all but a few academics. But as a Baptist, I have always thought that Christians, or anybody for that matter, would be better off to live in amity or indifference apart, than in rancor together.

19 posted on 09/30/2005 1:42:25 PM PDT by chesley
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To: annalex
Perhaps I wasn't enough. Let me explain.

If I was to wander to each parish off the street with out looking at the billboard, I would have a hard time believing they were the same denomination. One has kneeler's and a crucifix, the other doesn't even have a permanent cross near the altar. One at least makes an attempt at looking like a RCC church, the other I honestly thought we had wandered into the Presbyterian church across the street (and my apologies to the Presbyterians.)

My LCMS church looks more Roman Catholic than that! We have kneeler's, crucifixes, and don't decorate the church in pastels! If you compare this to the churches (LCMS and RCC) from where we met (Lincoln NE), I just have to wonder how much unity the various Catholic diocese's have between each other, never mind Rome.
20 posted on 09/30/2005 1:57:10 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: redgolum

That is true, and the fact that some parishes do not have a reverent mass even in Novus Order is very unfortunate. But schism is a term of art, it means validity of the sacraments and communion with Rome. Those wild parishes with clown masses and what have you, -- we don't like them, I avoid them, but they are not in schism. Again, the Easter rites also look not recognizable to an average American Catholic, who only knows Latin rite. If you wandered into an Eastern rite Catholic church you'd think it is an Orthodox church. So what you see and hear per se is not a criterion of Catholicity.

To say otherwise is to say that the look and feel defines the Church. In fact, the sacraments define the Church.

Now, an individual mass may be rendered invalid, for example, if improper elements are used for Communion. I strongly suspect that clown masses are invalid. But the parish as a whole remains Catholic, unless the priest is defrocked and the Church is closed down.


21 posted on 09/30/2005 2:17:14 PM PDT by annalex
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To: Claud
My wife and I do the exact same thing. Every Sunday we pass our local parish one block away from our house to take a 45 minute car-ride to the Latin Mass. Reverent liturgy is worth it.

I do an 8 mile trek by bike to a lovely Latin Mass. That suits me fine- sort of like an orthodoxy fitness plan.

22 posted on 09/30/2005 2:28:37 PM PDT by Antioch (Flannery O'Connor: “evil is not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be endured”)
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To: Antioch

A new president was recoently appointed locally to the local Catholic High School. He is flaminingly effeninate and is becoming a laughingstock of the school. He is proving to Catholic and non-catholic schoolchildren that priests are homosexuals.


23 posted on 09/30/2005 3:02:42 PM PDT by Chickensoup (Mmmmmmm! Mmmmmmm! Good!)
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To: Antioch
Some have said clergy are considering staging a strike on a Sunday, to show how critical gay priests are to serving the church. Priests who had not disclosed their sexual orientation to parishioners are now thinking about coming out and denouncing the idea of a ban. Others have talked about signing their names to a protest letter to the Vatican.

Do it!! Do it as a public service so faithful Catholics can identify where the clear and present danger lies. Post the lists on the internet and on every parish bulletin board. The priestly sex scandals flushed out a bunch but there are still numerous sleepers out there.

All of the clergy who are up in arms about this a) do not accept the Church's teaching that homosexual acts are sinful and b)identify themselves by their sexual orientation and are proud of it.

On both counts they fail the criteria for admission to the priesthood.

As for striking, that's a great idea too. It will slash the number of sacrilegious priestly Communions on any given Sunday and likely do the same to loony liturgies. The Mass is not a commodity whose availability is at the whim and beckon of these priests to deny it to the faithful when they wish but they care not a jot about this. It's all about me, me, me!!

24 posted on 09/30/2005 3:07:16 PM PDT by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow
What the Jesuits really should be worried about isn't homosexuality but this point on the the delegation's questionnaire:

”Is the seminary free from the influences of New Age and eclectic spirituality?”

That's where the bulk of them will fail the test.
25 posted on 09/30/2005 3:47:04 PM PDT by Antioch (Flannery O'Connor: “evil is not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be endured”)
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To: Antioch

Its not funny. But just imagine if that priest did get called to God and the only path he could go-was the one that leads down...no time to turn back then.


26 posted on 09/30/2005 4:40:28 PM PDT by Rosary (Pray the rosary daily,wear the Brown scapular)
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To: Antioch

I was in NYC last weekend and unfortunately went to mass at St. Ignatius Loyala -- the homily was a pure political rally decrying the Vatican "witchhunt" of gays, which homily was interrupted several times by applause from the congregation. Most inappropriate for the Eucharistic celebration...


27 posted on 09/30/2005 5:09:11 PM PDT by Unam Sanctam
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To: redgolum
you wrote: Again, as one on the outside it appears that there is a schism already in place, but it hasn't been formalized.

I don't have the quote but supposedly a high ranking Cardinal years ago said that the American church was in de facto schism.

will there be a formal split like Baptists and other Protestant denominations? would liberal bishops pull away and formally declare the Pope's governance nonbinding? I doubt it. Even today the tie to the Holy Father is paramount and any such group might get an initial group but would not get much traction, imho.
28 posted on 09/30/2005 5:15:12 PM PDT by Piers-the-Ploughman
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To: Unam Sanctam

Completely disgusting. Do remember that the Jebbies have the highest AIDS rate among male religious orders - that explains a lot.


29 posted on 09/30/2005 5:29:09 PM PDT by livius
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To: Antioch

The homosexual clergy are just upset they will be stymied from further destroying the Catholic Church from within.

Homosexuality=heresy.


30 posted on 09/30/2005 6:28:29 PM PDT by JohnRoss
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To: livius

Does this mean that every Jesuit in the United States has to keep quiet and fall in lock-step behind this? Is this guy speaking for all the Jesuits in the United States? Is their loyalty to the order or to the Church and the Holy Father? One or more of the orthodox Jesuits needs to show some spine, speak up, issue a statement disagreeing with this.


31 posted on 09/30/2005 7:57:39 PM PDT by Cookie123
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To: Antioch
Vatican to Check U.S. Seminaries on Gay Presence
POPE APPROVES BARRING GAY SEMINARIANS
Pope bans homosexuals from ordination as priests
Questions Arise Over Seminary Inspections
New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests

New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests (ABOUT TIME)
VATICAN: HOMOSEXUALS ARE NOT TO BE ORDAINED AS CATHOLIC PRIESTS
Homosexuals in the seminary; A Global Church in a Globalized World
Gay Men Ponder Impact of (Anti-Gay Clergy)Proposal by Vatican(Barf Alert)
Aquinas Seminary is First for Scrutiny

Vatican Begins Inspections At St. Louis Seminary (Rector: No homosexuality-pedophilia link)
The Sins of the Seminaries
Notre Dame Experts React to Potential Seminary Rules
Seminary Reviews Not Just About Homosexuality, Says Prelate
Jesuit Official Rips Expected Ban on Gays


32 posted on 09/30/2005 8:39:41 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: bornacatholic

Excellent points!


33 posted on 09/30/2005 8:44:19 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Unam Sanctam
I was in NYC last weekend and unfortunately went to mass at St. Ignatius Loyala - the homily was a pure political rally decrying the Vatican "witchhunt" of gays

Our Lady of Lourdes in this city is a Jesuit parish and in true cafteria tradition, they're the only ones who hold Dignity Masses

34 posted on 09/30/2005 10:04:23 PM PDT by Antioch (Flannery O'Connor: “evil is not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be endured”)
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To: FormerACLUmember

You know, Benedict may be "God's rottweiler" but the Jesuits are God's Marines, except the Jesuits aren't as nice as the Marines.
/Thankful for going to a Franciscan School
//Sure they were hippies, but Jesuits beat the hell out of their students.


35 posted on 10/01/2005 1:31:43 AM PDT by Hong Kong Expat
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To: Hong Kong Expat
The opposition to Pope Benedict reflects the upside down view of reality that a segment of our society possesses.

It is now autumn of 2005 and we still have not had an honest discussion of the Catholic Church sexual misconduct scandal. the press always seemed to refer to this issue being "pedophile priests." Pedophilia is not the issue and never has been.

The issue is gay men having sex with young boys. These gay men, under the cloak of the priesthood,used their positions of authority within the church to curry sexual favors from young boys. Like animals stalking an injured prey they sought out the most vulnerable boys to fulfill their needs.

Once again the issue is not pedophilia. The real issue is so very close to the old gay male stereotype that homosexuals and their supporters cannot allow the discussion of the problem to be rooted in honesty.

Not all gay priests are vying for sexual favors from young boys. However, priests using their position of power to gain sexual favors are almost all gay.
36 posted on 10/01/2005 4:16:12 AM PDT by saneright
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To: 43north

"Sorry Fr. Chojnacki. You are just plain WRONG on this one."

Jesuits are wrong on every one.


37 posted on 10/01/2005 4:52:00 AM PDT by RoadTest (If anybody has perfected Dirty Politics, it's the Democrats of our time.)
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To: Antioch

That's a great comment you made about the idea of a "strike". However, when I link to the article on Yahoo today (Oct 1), I don't find that paragraph anywhere. However, I also heard from a friend of a friend, that this talk of a strike was on Fox News this morning. I've searched around all morning and don't find any other articles online. Probably this was an idle threat, but I'm wondering where there's some more specifics on who said this, what priests were talking of striking, is it a small group or an order, etc. Well, please let us know if you have insight into this mystery. Thanks.


38 posted on 10/01/2005 1:52:46 PM PDT by baa39
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To: baa39
I believe the Yahoo story was modified after linking.

The story about Rev. Gerald Chojnacki and the talk of a strike can be found in :the Boston Globe

39 posted on 10/02/2005 12:17:43 PM PDT by Antioch (Flannery O'Connor: “evil is not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be endured”)
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To: Antioch
It would have been unlikely for this priest to have made such a call to "strike" if he did not consider his identity primarily as homosexual, secondarily as persecuted legal defendent, and peripherally as a Catholic priest. This is exactly what the apostolic visitations are about.

Bingo!

40 posted on 10/02/2005 4:17:40 PM PDT by tuesday afternoon (Everything happens for a reason. - 40 and 43)
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To: Antioch
Jesuit Official Rips Expected Ban on Gays
41 posted on 10/02/2005 9:30:32 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Antioch
I read an account of a young gay man who aspired to enter the Jusuit order. He stated that all the Jusuit priests he met were gay and they were constanly hitting on him from every side.

http://www.catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=2306

42 posted on 10/03/2005 12:33:11 AM PDT by freedom9 (I have heard of the surface. I'll try not to scratch it.)
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To: freedom9

Pope Clement XIV dissolved the Jesuits in the 1770's for much lesser heresies than the current New Age, homo retreat that some of their seminaries have become.
If you've ever read Malachi Martin's The Jesuits, you come away with the impression that they're not really working for Christ any longer. In North America, they're a liability , not an asset. The Holy Spirit has fled the order and left them to invent their own ersatz spirituality which appears to consist of navel gazing and dismissal of the Word of God.


43 posted on 10/03/2005 4:15:13 AM PDT by Antioch (Flannery O'Connor: “evil is not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be endured”)
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To: Unam Sanctam; Antioch

re: OL of Lourdes and St. Ignatius Loyola in NYC--seems to me if you have a parish that is promoting this kind of disgusting filth from the pulpit and it is being enthusiastically received by the congregation, it would be a prime candidate for a good old fashioned interdict.


44 posted on 10/03/2005 5:04:46 AM PDT by Claud
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