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To: murphE
It is clear, therefore, that this particular rite of the Roman Liturgy is the birth-right of all Roman Catholic priests and faithful..

The Greek/Maronite rite is historically the official birth-rite of all Roman Catholic priests and faithful. The Tridentine Rite is an "innovation" of the 16th Century.
33 posted on 10/14/2005 8:26:59 AM PDT by mike182d ("Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?")
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To: mike182d
The Tridentine Rite is an "innovation" of the 16th Century.

Not quite. The Canon itself goes back to at least Pope St. Gregory the Great, perhaps even before that. The other elements were added gradually over the centuries. What Pope St. Pius V did was "standardize" the rite used in the Holy See, and apply it to the rest of the Latin church. Certain other rites, such as the Ambrosian and Mozarbic, are still around.

34 posted on 10/14/2005 8:30:47 AM PDT by Pyro7480 (Blessed Pius IX, pray for us!)
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To: mike182d

Wrong, the Maronite rite is derived from the rite of the Syriac Church of Antioch, but suffered severe Latinizations under pressure from the Jesuits.

The Tridentine Mass was basically the Mass of the papal household during the Middle Ages, applied to the rest of the Church.

Prior to the Tridentine reform, almost every diocese had its own variant of the Roman rite, or usage: the most notable being the Uses of Sarum and York in England, the Use of Cologne in Germany. The Dominican, Carmelite, Cistercian, etc.

The differences included, variants of how the confiteor was said; marking the liturgical calendar as "Sundays after Trinity" instead of "Sundays after Pentacost"; different saints mentioned in the litany of the saints; occasionally, the mention of national saints in the Roman Canon (the 10th century Missal of Robert of Jumeiges is a prime example); different wordings of the Orate Fratres, etc.

The Novus Ordo has NOTHING in common with the organic development of the Roman rite, and to say otherwise is shear ignorance. If anyone reads Abp. Bugnini's memoir, they will see the Novus Ordo was composed out of political expediency, such as the removal of prayers that would be termed politically incorrect (too much penitential character).

Another thing the Novus Ordo only pertains to the LATIN Church of the Roman Patriarchate, NOT to the Universal Church. As a Melkite, I think it is shear arrogance for the defenders of the Novus Ordo to equate dissenting from the Novus Ordo with attacking Christ.

Local councils CAN ERR, and so can the pope when he is acting as Patiarch of the West. Would it be an insult to Christ according to you Novus Ordo defenders if my patriarch, Gregory III, the Melkite CATHOLIC patriarch of Antioch, changed our liturgy and people complained?

Latinism is NOT Catholicism, nor vice-versa.

The aforementioned variants of the Roman rite have 70 percent in common with the Tridentine usage.


113 posted on 10/14/2005 9:23:23 PM PDT by JohnRoss (We need a real conservative in 2008)
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