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To: murphE
[describing the de facto suppression of the traditional Latin Mass Pope Paul VI]-“a breach into the history of the liturgy whose consequences could only be tragic.”

Yes, this is true. Suppression of the Tridentine Riteis just as problematic as suppression of the Maronite Rite would be. Nothing against the NO here.

“I am convinced that the ecclesial crisis in which we find ourselves today depends in great part on the collapse of the liturgy.”

Yes, this is true. The Liturgy has collapsed at the hands of liberal liturgists who refuse to celebrate a NO Mass as the rubrics prescribe. Nothing here against the NO Mass either.

and also referred to the NO as:
“fabricated liturgy… a banal, on-the-spot product.”


Please provide the full quote. I cannot make an assesment of this statement because the actual subject Benedict XVI is speaking of is suspiciously absent.

So, are you accusing the pope of "say[ing] that Christ lied and that the Church failed to protect what was most Sacred"?

If Benedict XVI is saying that Vatican II was a failure, then yes.
62 posted on 10/14/2005 9:29:06 AM PDT by mike182d ("Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?")
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To: mike182d
It's from the article I posted the link to before, look it it up yourself or put me on the payroll as your research assistant. The article was quoting the preface written by Cardinal Ratzinger to the book The Reform of the Roman Liturgy , by Monsignor Klaus Gamber.

Cardinal Ratzinger not only endorses this book which is highly critical of the NO, but also praises the author.

Do you still think this statement of yours:

you cannot criticize the Novus Ordo Mass without criticizing the whole of the Church and the promise of Jesus Christ.

is true?

66 posted on 10/14/2005 9:43:31 AM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: mike182d

Here is a more complete quote from when Pope Benedict wrote the preface to Msgr. Gambler's book- apparently it may only be in the French edition:

"J. A. Jungmann, one of the truly great liturgists of our time, defined the liturgy of his day, such as it could be understood in the light of historical research, as a 'liturgy which is the fruit of development' . . . What happened after the Council was something else entirely: in the place of the liturgy as the fruit of development came fabricated liturgy. We abandoned the organic, living process of growth and development over centuries and replaced it, as in a manufacturing process, with a fabrication, a banal on-the-spot product (produit banal de l'instant). [Introduction by Cardinal Ratzinger to La Reforme Liturgique en question (Le-Barroux: Editions Sainte-Madeleine), 1992, pp. 7-8.]


77 posted on 10/14/2005 10:37:38 AM PDT by GF.Regis (Miserere mei)
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