Posted on 10/29/2005 6:44:03 AM PDT by NYer
Excellent point. Just yesterday, I was reading a book about the ONLY verified and fully documented exorcism in the U.S. I believe it was in the 1940's in Nebraska and was made into a movie. In it, according to the author, the exorcist was NOT to converse with the demon. The Ritual of Exorcism highly suggested this because the devil is the father of lies. What would be the point of conversing with the demon if you couldn't tell when he was lying or not? I can't remember the title, I think it was POSSESSION, (I was "skimming" it at Barnes and Noble for nearly 90 minutes!), but the exorcism was a very long, frustrating, and exhaustive process. But the one time that the exorcist went against the advice of the Ritual and conversed with the devil, he later regretted it, as the devil caused frustration by his lies.
Thus, I have doubts on the story above regarding what the demons purported to have said. Of COURSE they want to us to believe that they created Hell without God's help! Isn't that the whole point of their sin, PRIDE? God's Word is the Scriptures. Turn to them, not the lies of the devil.
Regards
This article, and the tone of its exorcist author, put me in mind of this little story related by Sulpitius Severus in his Concerning the Virtues of the Monks of the East
"A certain saint, then, endowed with almost incredible power in casting out demons from the bodies of those possessed by them, was, day by day, performing unheard-of miracles. For, not only when present, and not merely by his word, but while absent also, he, from time to time, cured possessed bodies, by some threads taken from his garment, or by letters which he sent. He, therefore, was to a wonderful degree visited by people who came to him from every part of the world. I say nothing about those of humbler rank; but prefects, courtiers, and judges of various ranks often lay at his doors. Most holy bishops also, laying aside their priestly dignity, and humbly imploring him to touch and bless them, believed with good reason that they were sanctified, and illumined with a divine gift, as often as they touched his hand and garment. He was reported to abstain always and utterly from every kind of drink, and for food (I will whisper this, Sulpitius, into your ear lest our friend the Gaul hear it), to subsist upon only six dried figs. But in the meantime, just as honor accrued to the holy man from his excellence, so vanity began to steal upon himfrom the honor which was paid him. When first he perceived that this evil was growing upon him, he struggled long and earnestly to shake it off, but it could not be thoroughly got rid of by all his efforts, since he still had a secret consciousness of being under the influence of vanity. Everywhere did the demons acknowledge his name, while he was not able to exclude from his presence the number of people who flocked to him. The hidden poison was, in the meantime, working in his breast, and he, at whose beck demons were expelled from the bodies of others, was quite unable to cleanse himself from the hidden thoughts of vanity. Betaking himself, therefore, with fervent supplication to God, he is said to have prayed that, power being given to the devil over him for five months, he might become like to those whom he himself had cured. Why should I delay with many words? That most powerful man,—he, renowned for his miracles and virtues through all the East, he, to whose threshold multitudes had gathered, and at whose door the highest dignitaries of that age had prostrated themselves—laid hold of by a demon, was kept fast in chains. It was only after having suffered all those things which the possessed are wont to endure, that at length in the fifth month he was delivered, not only from the demon, but (what was to him more useful and desirable) from the vanity which had dwelt within him."
Exactly. The devil spoke to Jesus Himself, and lied about God's protection over throwing yourself off a high place. If Satan will lie to Jesus, will he not to us as well?
Personally, I found Malachi Martin's analysis of possession to be much more anlaytic and thorough than Fr. Amorth's. But both authors are must-reads.
St. Thomas' (as usual) enlightening take on the subject.
The letter on the sheepskin was a squared 'o' with a flourish on the upper left corner. From the first chart, the far left singat character is close, or perhaps Tet, Mem, or Samech. The letter was about two to three feet tall on a stretched canvas like sheepskin, in a pitch black India ink like print on the clean pure white sheepskin background.
Perpendicular, in 3-D, coming out of the canvas, just touching it, was a figure like lamat on the far left, although the flourish on the upper left wasn't as pronounced, the upper bar was level with the floor, with a sharp nearly 90 degree downward turn merging into a long curve back to the canvas. The labat or lamed was made out of gold metal in a fine rigid lace.
That's not true.
Luke 4:41But they certainly can't be trusted.Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, "You are the Son of God!" But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Christ.
I haven't read Fr. Amorth's books, but Malachi Martin's was extraordinarily well-written, and profoundly frightening. I highly recommend it, but only for those well-grounded in their faith.
Father John Hardon warned never to have a conversation with Satan. For excorcists, the fact finding was to be short and explicit, not a dialogue. V's wife.
"(never) have a conversation with Satan"
Sound advise! Defeating Satan is not an act of the mind but of the heart. From the Book of Genesis we learn that Satan is the craftiest of all creatures. Wisdom and Charity makes us masters over demons. It's a matter of disciplining our thoughts and emotions via a Life of Holiness and frequent use of the Sacraments. The Sacred Heart of Jesus is Victorious.
'demons came out of many people, shouting, "You are the Son of God!"'
Interesting too how Jesus said that not all who cry "Lord, Lord" will be Saved. I suppose these demons are some who fit the bill.
There's a short, booklet sized description that has been circulated for years about this particular case of possessio in Nebraska. The title ifs "Begone Satan!"
Quite a bit unnerving, to read about the case from first-hand diaries. Regards
Because they are steeped deeply in tradition and have added layer upon layer of false doctrines throughout history. Jesus Our Lord issued harsh rebukes to the priests' of the day concerning tradition.
15:1 Then came to Jesus Scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying (almost all of the opposition to Christ came from religious leaders)
15:2 Why do your Disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? (Their confidence was in their man-made rules rather than the Word of God) for they wash not their hands when they eat bread (had no sanitary meaning; this tradition taught that an evil spirit could sit on the hands of people, and when the hands were washed, the evil spirit would be removed)
15:3 But He answered and said unto them (proclaims Christ drawing them back to the Word of God), Why do you also transgress the Commandment of God by your tradition? (He ignored their tradition because it was not Scriptural. He then tells them that their traditions were causing them to trangress the Commandment of God.)
15:4 For God Commanded, saying Honour your father and mother: and, He who curses father or mother, let him die the death [Ex.20:12; 21:17]
15:5 But you say (in direct contradition to what God commanded) Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift (dedicated their estate to the Temple so that they wouldn't have to take care of their aged parents, and a crooked Priest would then give it back to them, after taking a percentage), by whatsoever you might be profited by Me (making an illegal profit off of God, which componded their sin);
15:6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free (free from responsibility) Thus have you made the Commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
15:7 You (was said to their faces) hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
15:8 This people draw near unto Me with their mouth, and honour Me with their lips; but their heart is far from Me (this defines the hypocrite)
15:9 But in vain do they worship Me (worship that was not accepted by God indicative of much of the modern Church as well) ,teaching for doctrines the commmandments of men (anything that adds to or takes away from the Word of God)
bttt
That one should give us all pause.
I read that book found it at a Saint Vincent de Paul store for almost nothing. Don't know what I did with that book. Scarey book. I can't remember too much. Any highlights?
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