Posted on 11/22/2005 7:26:10 AM PST by NYer
That would be ...
um ...
...
you.
Jesus overturning the moneychangers' tables has nothing to do with iconoclasm, in any of its foul instances.
now there is a fine example of catholic bigotry and self delusion. BTW, the article was a nice piece of revisionist history as well.
God's love for us is beautiful. His sacrifice of His only Son on the cross is beautiful. The Holy Sacraments are beautiful. His promise of Salvation and Everlasting Life is beautiful.
"Jesus overturning the moneychangers' tables has nothing to do with iconoclasm, in any of its foul instances."
It illustrates that there is a time and place to cleanse the temple, so to speak. (Now if you could guarantee that everything catholics ever did was totally in line with the will of God then you might be able to argue that your temple was never in need of cleansing.)
"God's love for us is beautiful. His sacrifice of His only Son on the cross is beautiful. The Holy Sacraments are beautiful. His promise of Salvation and Everlasting Life is beautiful."
Yes, but Christianity is not about the worship of "Beauty" as if it is some disembodied greek goddess.
We worship a God who is beautiful - not the god of "Beauty".
Iconoclasm is not now, and never has been, an instance of such cleansing. Indeed, if I may revise my statement, the results of protestant iconoclasm infiltrating the Catholic Church are an example of the temple pollution that needs to be cleansed. Iconoclasm is ultimately a celebration of ugliness; a rejection of the beauty of God and His creation. If that's what you want, knock yourself out. But don't pretend to be Christian when you're doing it.
I missed the place where the article said anything about worshipping beauty. Can you point that out?
God is Beauty. And Goodness. And Truth. And Wisdom. And Knowledge. And Power. And every other virtue and perfection you could name. And then some you and I can't name.
"I missed the place where the article said anything about worshipping beauty."
Here is the reference:
"The Catholic Church, instead, offers a celebration of beauty;"
"What? Do you worship a god of ugliness?"
You bring up an interesting point.
For he grew up before him like a young plant,
and like a root out of dry ground;
he had no form or majesty that we should look at him,
and no beauty that we should desire him.
He was despised and rejected by men;
a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief;
and as one from whom men hide their faces.
Thank you for this article...I am not a Catholic, actually I belong to no organized religion, tho I was raised as a Methodist, many, many years ago...
But I am searching many different religions, and reading my Bible, and trying to see if there is out there, a particular religion which in my heart, rings out loud and clear that it might just be the religion which holds the truth...its a long and often daunting task, but a task well worthwhile...
So altho I rarely ever post anything on a religious thread, but prefer to remain a lurker, still I appreciate any well written articles, and appreciate those posters who post well thought out posts, supplied with plenty of Biblical references, and historical facts...
I have no use for those who just wish to name call and demean those of a religion other than their own...
For me, good articles, ,good posts, will help me in my journey...Bashing just turns me off...
Anyway, thanks for this article, and for your informative posts..
Amen to that. And they can't seem to get them all 'modernized' fast enough. In previous generations, we had Churches and Cathedrals taken by invaders or damaged in battles. Today, too many line up for a willing destruction in the name of modernism.
So true. And we're pleased to be pinged.
"Iconoclasm is ultimately a celebration of ugliness; a rejection of the beauty of God and His creation. "
Under the right conditions iconoclasm is certainly permitted.
Exodus 23:24
Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.
Cute ... clever, even. But misguided.
Revelation 1:
I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
11Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
12And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
13And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
14His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
15And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
16And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
17And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Revelation 4:
2And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
3And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
4And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
5And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
6And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
In fact, read the whole book; pay special attention to the description of the Holy City in chapters 21 and 22. You've mistaken the disguise for the real thing.
That would be you.
The Temple was a famously beautiful building, but Jesus did not destroy the art or the gold. He did prophesy that the Romans would do so.
What he objected to was the presence of moneychangers in the Court of the Gentiles, which made it impossible for Gentiles to pray within the Temple grounds ... not to the beauty of the structure. There is nothing wrong with dedicating the best we have to the service of God.
Here is the reference:
"The Catholic Church, instead, offers a celebration of beauty;"
People celebrate lots of things. That is different from worship. That's why there are two different words.
SD
Celebration is quite different from worship. One can appreciate and celebrate the beauty of a spouse, in children, the beauty found in nature, in art, without worshipping spouse or children or nature or art or putting those in the place of worship for God above all. Yet God created the heavens and the earth and all that is in it and made it good, for us.
"That would be you."
You're a little late for your appointment, but we'll be glad to work you in... :)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1526731/posts?page=24#24
"There is nothing wrong with dedicating the best we have to the service of God."
If God is interested in the "best" then why did He allow His Son to be born in a manger?
Don't you see how supposedly "dedicating the best we have" can quickly become bringing the spirit of the world into the Church? The outward glory, beauty, pomp - all of that God rejects.
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