Posted on 11/29/2005 9:32:31 PM PST by murphE
From post #17 :
"For a plenary indulgence it is required in addition to go to confession and Holy Communion, and to pray for the intention of our Holy Father the Pope; for this last requirement it is sufficient to recite one Our Father and one Hail Mary. Now, what does praying for the intention of the Pope or bishop or anyone else mean? It does not mean that you are to pray for the Pope himself, but for whatever he is praying for or wishes you to pray for. For instance, on one day the Holy Father may be praying for the success of some missions that he is establishing in pagan lands; on another, he may be praying that the enemies of the Church may not succeed in their plans against it; on another, he may be praying for the conversion of some nation, and so on; whatever he is praying for or wishes you to pray for is called his intention."
Of course.
Thank you both for your replies!
I love being a Catholic! What a rich heritage we have!
Even secret sins offend and do damage to a "third party", The Body of Christ, the Church.
"Now, what about the extent to which you or I can pay? Aren't we morally obligated to do something about that?"
If you pay for something, it is no longer a gift.
"For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness." 4Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5And to the one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,"
-Rom 4
Luke. 11:2 He(Y'shua) said to them, “When you pray, say: “`Father, [Some
manuscripts: Our Father in heaven] hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come. [Some manuscripts: come. May your
will be done on earth as it is in heaven.]
Luke. 11:3 Give us each day our daily bread.
Luke. 11:4 Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins
against us. [Greek: everyone who is indebted to us] And lead
us not into temptation.’“ [Some manuscripts: temptation but
deliver us from the evil one]
b'shem Y'shua
What did Paul say a few chapters later?
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?
Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.
We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin.
Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. We know that Christ being raised from the dead will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal bodies, to make you obey their passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
-Rom 6
Apples and oranges, we're not talking about forgiveness and eternal punishment due sin, we're talking about temporal punishment due sin.
Huh?
Right. The gates of heaven are now open to us through baptism, the eternal punishment due original sin (loss of heaven) is remitted. However we still suffer the other punishments of original sin. We still get sick, we still get old, we still have to die (among many other things.)only now, since we have been baptized, and through baptism have sanctifying grace these sufferings can have merit.
It works the same way with the actual sins we commit. If we give up the gift of sanctifying grace from our baptism by the commission of mortal sin, we can repent and be forgiven and once again have sanctifying grace which allows us to get to heaven, (through Sacramental Confession by the way), but we still must suffer the temporal punishments due those actual sins we committed and repented of.
Your other post is not applicable to the discussion, if you had read all of the other posts you might see that, you may not accept it, but you would know we are referring to different things.
Nonsense. If you buy me a new Cadillac as a gift, and I tidy up your yard when you're on vacation out of gratitude, have I paid for the Cadillac? Is it no longer a gift?
And, going back to my original example, if you insist that your son pay for the window he broke, is your forgiveness no longer a gracious gift?
God will work miracles if you'll only let him out of your manmade Reformed theological box.
I am not a Catholic (although one has honored me by calling me an "honorary Catholic"), but I am very glad to read articles like this. If sincere Catholics seriously practice their religious duties, the whole world benefits. Sincere prayer to God and the saints is never in vain, from whichever direction it comes.
To belittle and denigrate another's religious beliefs and practices, even if a little different, is not pleasing to God. Do people think He only hears Catholic prayers? Or only Protestant prayers? Or even only Christian prayers? He hears the prayers of every living soul.
Thanks for posting the article and additions, both of you.
Wrong, blatantly wrong. If you pay for your justification, you cannot consider your justification to be freely given. But not all expiation for sins is "payment for justification," particularly not if the persons in question are already justified.
Everyone who sins pays a penalty for those sins in some way or another, here or hereafter. There are no exceptions.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.