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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Sure, there are traditions and traditions. Luther started one. I have another. The parable of the Sawer distinguishes between traditions that rob us from our faith and traditions that nurture our faith. The former are condemned as traditions of men. The latter is praised both in 2 Timothy which you quote, and most forcefully in 2 Thessalonians 2:14.

Yes, tradition goes hand in hand with authority. The tradition of the Church received its authority from Christ, as we read in Matthew 18:

18 Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.
But I don't want to distract you from pondering when the work of the Holy Spirit occured in Mary.
106 posted on 12/14/2005 10:37:07 AM PST by annalex
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To: annalex; HarleyD; suzyjaruki; RnMomof7; Johannes Althusius; xzins
But I don't want to distract you from pondering when the work of the Holy Spirit occured in Mary.

No distraction. I ponder Mary hardly at all.

As the following excellent link reminds us, Mary was blessed among women, not above women...

VENERATION OF MARY

As long as you're interested, another wonderful book I recommend is "The Cult of the Virgin Mary: Psychological Origins" by Michael P. Carroll which details how Marianology has its roots in the ancient Cult of Cybele.

Rejoice, Annalex. God's gift of grace is so much simpler than some would make it.

107 posted on 12/14/2005 2:05:16 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (Semper eo pro iocus.)
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To: annalex
But I don't want to distract you from pondering when the work of the Holy Spirit occured in Mary.

That is just it, the one that worked IN her is the one to be praised and adored. She was the object of the grace of God, not the originator she was the beneficiary of Gods grace. Praise the one that works in her not the vessel that received the blessing.

Mary was the mother of Christ, and what did He say of that ?

When She called to have him come to her and stop teaching , thinking He was insane, Jesus said this .

Mat 12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

Mat 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

Mat 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

Mat 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

So my friend I am as loved by him as His mother and His brethren by Faith

Luk 11:27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed [is] the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.

Luk 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed [are] they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

I am blessed !

from Rome

"As she suffered and almost died together with her suffering and dying Son, so she surrendered her mother's rights over her Son for the salvation of the human race. And to satisfy the justice of God she sacrificed her Son, as well as she could, so that it may justly be said that she together with Christ has redeemed the human race"(Pope Benedict XV,Inter Sodalicia, March 22, 1918).

The above statement makes the wrong person savior

the Mary of Catholicism is not the Mary of the Bible.The woman has been changed by Catholicism into something different than the real. She is presented by such as the sinless virgin, Mother of the Church, Mother of Mercies, Door of Paradise, Our Lady of Fatima, The Virgin of the Poor, Lady of the Roses, Co-redemptrix, Queen of Peace, Our Lady of Guadalupe, Mediatrix of all Graces, Mother of God, Refuge of Sinners, Gate of Heaven, Queen of Heaven.

Your church teaches to come to jesus through Mary, but no where is that idea seen in scripture

Jesus tells us we can just COME, we do not need a mediator to come to Him

"If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink (John 7:37).

Your church teaches it is she that dispenses grace not God . (perhaps why you can not define grace?)

"As St. Irenaeus says, ‘Being obedient she became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race.' Hence not a few of the early Fathers gladly assert ...: ‘The knot of Eve's disobedience was untied by Mary's obedience: what the virgin Eve bound through her disbelief, Mary loosened by her faith.' Comparing her with Eve, they call Mary ‘Mother of the living' and frequently claim: ‘Death through Eve, life through Mary' (Catechism of the Catholic Church, p. 125

You have a savior, but it is not Christ.

You seem to indicate that you grow your own faith and that you have Mary as a sinless savior.

Meditate on that for a time .

110 posted on 12/14/2005 2:57:18 PM PST by RnMomof7 ("Sola Scriptura,Sola Christus,Sola Gratia,Sola Fide,Soli Deo Gloria)
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