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To: annalex

So the preexistant Son, the autotheos, could not be born of Mary since that would imply a creaturely nature to his divinity.

The moment of incarnation, when the Holy Spirit energized the union of God and man, was when the egg divided into the embryo. Do you agree?

If so, I will grant you "Mary the mother of Godman". Mary the mother of God is heretical since it is incomplete and leads towards Monarchianism.


119 posted on 12/14/2005 10:30:05 PM PST by Johannes Althusius (Not to mention the inference leading towards idolatry. Yup!)
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To: Johannes Althusius

Well said. And I only had to look up one word. :-)


120 posted on 12/14/2005 10:48:15 PM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: Johannes Althusius
Yup, what you describe is nestorianism, dressed up with modern knowledge of human physiology.

The Son is begotten, uncreated, one in being with the Father. He has two natures, human and divine. His entire person was born of the Virgin Mary by the power of the Holy spirit; she did not give birth to a nature (which would be the nestorian error), but to a person. The incarnation of the Son is a miracle, which, of course, does not have a physiological explanation (your second error, which Nestorius, unaware of scientism that crushes our thought today, may or may not have made). Nestorian views were condemned at the Council of Ephesus (AD 431), from which proceedings I quote:

So then he who had an existence before all ages and was born of the Father, is said to have been born according to the flesh of a woman, not as though his divine nature received its beginning of existence in the holy Virgin, for it needed not any second generation after that of the Father (for it would be absurd and foolish to say that he who existed before all ages, coeternal with the Father, needed any second beginning of existence), but since, for us and for our salvation, he personally united to himself an human body, and came forth of a woman, he is in this way said to be born after the flesh; for the was not first born a common man of the holy Virgin, and then the Word came down and entered into him, but the union being made in the womb itself, he is said to endure a birth after the flesh, ascribing to himself the birth of his own flesh.
This is Canon I, containing the anathema directed at you:
I.

IF anyone will not confess that the Emmanuel is very God, and that therefore the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God (Qeotokos), inasmuch as in the flesh she bore the Word of God made flesh [as it is written, "The Word was made flesh">: let him be anathema.

This is the full literally translated text of the Nicene Creed currently proclaimed; later additions in the West are in brackets.

We believe (I believe) in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, and born of the Father before all ages. (God of God) light of light, true God of true God. Begotten not made, consubstantial to the Father, by whom all things were made. Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven. And was incarnate of the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary and was made man; was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered and was buried; and the third day rose again according to the Scriptures. And ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, and shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, of whose Kingdom there shall be no end. And (I believe) in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father (and the Son), who together with the Father and the Son is to be adored and glorified, who spoke by the Prophets. And one holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We confess (I confess) one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for (I look for) the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen."
For detail on the history of the Creed see The Nicene Creed
121 posted on 12/15/2005 7:38:01 AM PST by annalex
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