Posted on 01/13/2006 1:52:44 PM PST by NYer
Moscow, Jan. 13, 2006 (CNA) - The Patriarch of Moscow, Alexis II, has called on Protestant Churches to solve the issue of homosexual “marriage” by adhering to the values and principles of the Christian faith, instead of being carried away by liberal tendencies.
During a meeting between Alexis II and the president of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland, Yukka Paarma, the Patriarch said, “The values that come from the Gospel must be preserved and advanced, and we must not be influenced by the liberal forces of today.”
Could not find this through a news search but CNA carried it.
Bless his heart ... I hope they listen to him!
I'm sure they'll pay him as much heed as they do the pope. (Or God, for that matter.)
You're probably right, but I still admire the Patriarch for speaking up, even when it seems to be pointless. You never know when the Holy Spirit will strike!
The Catholic and Orthodox churches have their problems with this issue, but they reject the behavior. That part is positive.
The mainlines would do well to follow that example, at least.
It always sort of amazes me that they continue to get this part right.
The Catholic Chuch has never had a problem with Doctrine about Homosexuality. It is the protestant churches, beginning with the Lambeth Conference, which paved the path to the "accepted" practice of that particular perversion when it allowed for the liceity of contraception
"It always sort of amazes me that they continue to get this part right."
I'm sincerely curious, Padre. Why?
The part about institutionally rejecting homosexuality in the face of what must be tremendous pressure to change the historic rule with so many priests and bishops part of either the practicing culture or the "see no evil" culture that had to have existed.
"The part about institutionally rejecting homosexuality in the face of what must be tremendous pressure to change the historic rule with so many priests and bishops part of either the practicing culture or the "see no evil" culture that had to have existed."
Ah, now I understand...just the simple grandson of simple Greek peasants, you know! :
As a sidelight to all of this, there are some writings by the Desert Fathers which deal with the struggle some of the their monks or novices had with same sex attraction which were written in the very early centuries of The Church. Neither temptation unacted upon nor apparently sexual orientation seemed to disqualify those men from their vocation.
As a Missouri Synod Lutheran, I gotta tell you it's more than a little amusing to read posts from our separated Catholic bretheren suggesting that all Protestant churches must have some sort of homosexual problem.
Let's remember that the Anglican Church, which is really part of the Catholic tradition is now openly allowing gay ministers. Most Protestants do reject homosexuality but perhaps don't spend much time at the pulpit speaking against it. Those that allow it are not Christian churches in any way shape or form.
Padre?
Interesting...do you remember which, Kolo? I'd be curious to read those.
And then of course, the East also had the Emperor, who took a rather different tack:
"In that year [A.D. 528] some of the bishops from various provinces were accused of living immorally in matters of the flesh and of homosexual practices. Amongst them was Isaiah, bishop of Rhodes, an ex-praefectus vigilum at Constantinople, and likewise the bishop from Diospolis in Thrace, named Alexander. In accordance with a sacred ordinance they were brought to Constantinople and were examined and condemned by Victor, the city prefect, who punished them: he tortured Isaiah severely and exiled him and he amputated Alexander's genitals and paraded him around on a litter. The emperor [Justinian] immediately decreed that those detected in pederasty should have their genitals amputated. At that time, many homosexuals were arrested and died after having their genitals amputated. From then on there was fear amongst those afflicted with homosexual lust."(tip o' the hat to Antoninus who dug this up from the Chronicle of John Malalas)
I'll try to find it for you. I read it within the last six months but you know, the Desert Fathers wrote a lot of stuff!
I think I found it, or at least a piece:
"Q: Pray for me, my Father, I am very much disturbed by thoughts of sexual sin, despondency, and fear; and a thought says to me that I should converse with a brother to whom I feel attracted when I see him, lest by my silence I give him occasion for suspicion. I feel likewise that the demons are somehow pressing me, and I fall into fear.
A: Brother! You are not yet instructed in warfare with the enemy, which is why there come to you thoughts of fear, despondency, and sexual sin. Stand against them with a firm heart, for combatants, unless they labor, are not crowned, and warriors, unless they show the King their skill in battles, do not become worthy of honors. Remember what David was like. Do you not also sing: "Test me, O Lord, and try me, kindle my inwards parts and my heart" (Psalms 25:2). And again: "If a regiment arm itself against me, I will hope in Him" (Psalms 26:3). Likewise, concerning fear: "For if I should go in the midst of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for Thou art with me" (Psalms 22:4). And concerning despondency: "If the spirit of the powerful one should come upon thee, do not leave thy place" (Ecclesiastes 10:4).
Do you not wish to be skilled? But a man who is not tested by temptations is not skilled. It is battles that make a man skilled. The work of a monk consists of enduring battles and opposing them with manfulness of heart. But since you do not know the cunning traps of the enemy, he brings thoughts of fear and weakens your heart. You must know that God will not allow against you battles and temptations above your strength; the Apostle also teaches this, saying: "Faithful is the Lord, Who will not leave you to be tempted more than you can bear" (I Corinthians 10:13).
Brother! I also in my youth was many times and powerfully tempted by the demon of sexual sin, and I labored against such thoughts, contradicting them and not agreeing with them, but presenting before my own eyes eternal tortures. For five years I acted thus every day, and God relieved me of these thoughts. This warfare is abolished by unceasing prayer with weeping.
And the fact that the demons are pressing you proceeds from their envy; if they could, they would chase you out of your cell also; but God does not allow them to take possession of you, for they do not have authority for this. God could swiftly relive you, but then you would not begin to oppose another passion (when it comes). May the demons not weaken you so as to turn your attention to a brother (to whom you are attracted), or to converse with him; but If you should happen unexpectedly to come together with him, against your desire, restrain your glance with fear and decency and do not listen attentively to his voice. And if this brother, out of ignorance, should himself begin to speak with you or sit next to you, then skillfully avoid him, but not suddenly, rather with decorum. Say to your thought: "Remember the terrible Judgment of God and the shame which will then overtake those who are attracted by these shameful passions." Compel your thought, and you will receive help, by the prayers of the Saints, and God will have mercy on you. Do not be a child in mind, "but a child in malice" (I Corinthians 14:20); in mind, O brother, be perfect. Pay heed to yourself, as to how you will meet God. Amen."
This is from the writings of +Barnusuphius of Gaza, 6th century.
padre?
Common name used for all chaplains....whether Catholic or not. At least, that's how I take Kolo's use.
Perhaps he recognizes my ordination....I don't know.
Kolokotronis freepmailed me; I was not aware of your previous ministry. Welcome Home!
Catholic, Orthodox, West, East ... no matter ... you're in good company, as I suspect you already know. I'm RC but a member of an Eastern (Maronite) Catholic Church. Kolokotronis is my Eastern guide to understanding the distinctions. Bless him and you!
The pursuit of wealth & power corrupted the medieval church and led to the protestant reformation. That corruption went to the top, apparently.
When corruption gets to certain levels one can only wonder at what prevents it from going higher. The apathy surrounding the homosexual issue was well known in Cincinnati (my home area) when the accusations against Bernardin, later to be Cardinal, became public. No one ever denied the culture, and it became evident that it was known by the powerful what was going on.
Northern Kentucky, just across the river from Cincy, is in the process of paying victims hundreds of millions of dollars BECAUSE their culture of paderasty was known about and apathetically shrugged off. We've recently been subjected to advertisements on TV & radio by law firms telling of the court award. The lawfirms, of course, are seeking to identify more victims, so they, too, can get their fingers into this huge financial payoff.
One can only wonder what prevented this from going to the highest levels and changing the church's historic objection to homosexuality.
"Perhaps he recognizes my ordination....I don't know."
I use it, Padre, as a term of utmost respect! When I was a boy, one of my family's dearest friends was a Monseignor who had been a Rear Admiral and head of our chaplains in the Pacific theater during the War. He taught me that in God's scheme of things there is a definite hierarchy; God, Chaplains, Admirals, Master Chiefs and then everyone else.
In the close to fifty years since he told me that, I've yet to find him wrong! :)
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