Posted on 01/17/2006 3:55:48 PM PST by annalex
Indeed, the Christian catacombs stand testament to the early belief in a purgatorial state and the merit of prayer, fasting and Holy Liturgy for the faithfully departed.
"Isn't the Catholic Encyclopedia approved by the Church?"
It is a private publication. The very late Archbishop of New York allowed it to use the name Catholic.
Complaints should be sent to the estates of the editorial board:
Charles G. Herbermann, Professor of Latin and Librarian of the College of the City of New York
Edward A. Pace, then Professor of Philosophy in the Catholic University
Condé B. Pallen, Editor
Rt. Rev. Thomas J. Shahan, then Professor of Church History in the Catholic University
John J. Wynne, S.J., Editor of The Messenger
"Indeed, the Christian catacombs stand testament to the early belief in a purgatorial state and the merit of prayer, fasting and Holy Liturgy for the faithfully departed."
Well, certainly of an intermediate state; I don't think I'd apply the adjective "purgatorial" to it, but it might be a way to look at it if the fire of God's love about which the Fathers speak has an effect in that "place of the dead". It seems to me it might because as +Isaac the Syrian teaches
"I say that those who are suffering in hell, are suffering in being scourged by love. ... It is totally false to think that the sinners in hell are deprived of God's love. Love is a child of the knowledge of truth, and is unquestionably given commonly to all. But love's power acts in two ways: it torments sinners, while at the same time it delights those who have lived in accord with it." Homily 84
And +Symeon the New Theologian writes:
"Can a man take fire into his bosom, and his clothes not be burned says the wise Solomon. And I say: can he, who has in his heart the Divine fire of the Holy Spirit burning naked, not be set on fire, not shine and glitter and not take on the radiance of the Deity in the degree of his purification and penetration by fire? For penetration by fire follows upon purification of the heart, and again purification of the heart follows upon penetration by fire, that is, inasmuch as the heart is purified, so it receives Divine grace, and again inasmuch as it receives grace, so it is purified. When this is completed (that is, purification of heart and acquisition of grace have attained their fullness and perfection), through grace a man becomes wholly a god."
Now if the fire of God's love torments those in hell, could it also purify the souls in the intermediate state as it surely does while we are alive? I don't know the answer to that. I do think its important, at least from an Orthodox pov, to avoid any use of the word "merit", since the reception of God's grace/love has nothing whatsoever to do with "merit" nor do I think that Orthodoxy would ascribe to the notion that my fasting somehow benefits a soul in that intermediate place, though it certainly benefits us the living. Begging God for mercy on their souls in the Liturgy or Memorial Services and Funerals is another matter all together.
"You DARE to take the seat of Judgement from Christ Jesus?"
The great thing about the Bible is that in it God has clearly made known how He acts and what we can expect from Him on judgement day.
To merely repeat what God has already said is not an attempt to "take the seat of Judgement", rather, it is an affirmation of the truth of the Bible.
My statement was: "Catholics who think that if they don't pursue holiness and righteousness in this world they can deal with it in the next. In reality these people are more than likely lost - i.e. spiritually unconverted".
Now if you can't see that the above statement is Biblically sound, then you don't know your New Testament. It is clearly taught in the following passage...
"Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life." - Gal. 6:7&8
Catholics (or Protestants, Orthodox, or anyone else) who do not sow to the Spirit will surely reap hell. There will be no purgatory to save them.
Purgatorial or Purificatory. Merit or value. Great post on your part.
The perfection of theosis in the place of the dead is a matter of grace, to be sure. The faithfully departed experience the pain of expectation of heaven that comes with the knowledge that their shortcomings stand in the way.
"The faithfully departed experience the pain of expectation of heaven that comes with the knowledge that their shortcomings stand in the way."
I wonder if that is what happens. I honestly don't know, but I remember the nuns telling us that when I was a little boy in Catholic school. When the Fathers speak of the fire of God's love, they never say that that love causes pain to those who love God, only to those who have rejected God. Orthodox theologians, when speaking of this intermediate place comment that the righteous are joyous because they have a glimpse of the glory to come after the final judgment while the ultimately damned are tormented by that knowledge.
"If you are telling me it is not a reliable source of Catholic doctrine, I will remember that for the future."
If you are looking to find authentic Catholic teaching directly from the teaching ministry of the Catholic Church I would recommend the following:
1. Teachings of the Sacred College of Bishops in union with the bishop of Rome-Ecumenical Councils
2. Teachings of the ministry of the bishop of Rome
3. Teachings of the Early Church Fathers
4. Teachings of the Doctors of the Church
The 1915 Encyclopedia is not a work of the teaching ministry of the Catholic Church but rather a private work of the laity to provide a compendium of Catholic thought and history. It is certainly not a primary source and should not be used, as such.
I also agree that the theology of atonement is different in the East and in the West. I plan to make a post or two on the differences there next week. I hesitated whether I should have concentrated on the differences first, but decided to knock down this easier topic of treasure of merit first. For indeed it is easier and most if not all objections that you raise seem to me really objections to the punishment and satisfaction atonement theory in light of the Orthodox more ancient ransom theory. But if the topic is treasure of merit, it seems to me, we are fighting shadows of real disagreements rather than discussing the topic itself.
You also mention one real disagreement on the Purgatory:
The Church has always taught that there was a place where most souls go after death for an intermediate period between the Partial and Final Judgments. The early Church also believed that in this place God's love, spoken of as a fire, either purifies and fills the soul with joy or torments depending on the destination of the soul at the time of the Final Judgment. I suspect the concept of purgatory developed from this early theology, a theology which Orthodoxy maintains to this day.
The Catholic Church teaches that when the Particular Juidgement after death is favorable -- the man is justified, -- the outcome is sometimes immediate entry into heaven and beatific vision, or a detour in Purgatory. But when the judgement is condemnation it is immediate. In other words, the souls in Purgatory are all on their way to heaven. There are, of course, ample reasons to believe just that for the Latin mind, since unconfessed mortal sin at the time of death leaves no room for repentance after death, where will does not operate; yet temporal consequences of sin can be expiated through torment. So the question arises, does the Church in the East teach that condemnation can go through an intermediate stage as well?
Aside from this possible material disagreement, and, as I said before, aside from the very real disagreement on atonement, I do not see a true objection to the treasure of merit. That is because the ransom theory of salvation allows for intercession just as the atonement theory allows for it, and indeed the clergy and the faithful in the East are engaged in the prayers for the dead and for the sins of unrepentant mankind perhaps more than the West. A monk in the West mortifies flesh because he thinks that his suffering will accrue to the penance of someone in the world. A monk in the East mortifies flesh to be more like Christ. But the whole purpose of Christ is to lift up the world. That monk in the East cannot be like Christ unless he directs his suffering to the spiritual benefit of fellow men. He then contributes to the same treasury of merit even though he labels these things differently: in terms of mercy rather than in terms of merit.
Let us not forget that merit is an obverse of mercy. Here the Holy Father places the indulgences firmly in the context of divine mercy and of emulation of Christ.
11. Therefore Holy Mother Church, supported by these truths, while again recommending to the faithful the practice of indulgences as something very dear to the Christian people during the course of many centuries and in our days as well—this is proven by experience—does not in any way intend to diminish the value of other means of sanctification and purification, first and foremost among which are the Sacrifice of the Mass and the Sacraments, particularly the Sacrament of Penance. Nor does it diminish the importance of those abundant aids which are called sacramentals or of the works of piety, penitence and charity. All these aids have this in common that they bring about sanctification and purification all the more efficaciously, the more closely the faithful are united with Christ the Head and the Body of the Church by charity. The preeminence of charity in the Christian life is confirmed also by indulgences. For indulgences cannot be acquired without a sincere conversion of mentality ("metanoia") and unity with God, to which the performance of the prescribed works is added. Thus the order of charity is preserved, into which is incorporated the remission of punishment by distribution from the Church's treasury.(INDULGENTIARUM DOCTRINA 4:11)
It goes without saying that the primitive notion of heavenly bookkeeping as we fill in some kind of purgatorial time cards is just that, primitive piety, and the Catholic Church knows that.
"I, of course, do not presume by that that you personally need an entry level introduction to the concepts of atonement and merit."
Oh, I knew that and certainly took no offense, my friend.
I'm going to bounce around a bit here.
"That monk in the East cannot be like Christ unless he directs his suffering to the spiritual benefit of fellow men. He then contributes to the same treasury of merit even though he labels these things differently: in terms of mercy rather than in terms of merit."
Ultimately, yes. The ascetical practices of monastics are directed towards the theosis of the individual monk, but in that process two things take place. First, at a "mundane" level, the monastics pray for all creation, begging God to show mercy, "Kyrie eleison, Kyrie eleison, Kyrie eleison!" This practice, among innumerable others, by the grace of God, allows the monastic to progressively die to him or herself and approach theosis. That state indeed helps creation because it is ever so much a lessening of the sin which burdens creation. We can all do this by the adoption of ascetical practices and yes, corporal acts of mercy which are as much if not more a blessing to ourselves as to others. But does the theosis of a monastic help the souls in the "place of the dead"? I've never heard that except to the extent that we all pray that God hears the prayers for mercy which we offer for the dead. I will speculate that the prayers of a holy monastic are likely more efficacious than those of a sinner like me, however. Is this what the Latin Church is refering to when it speaks of the "treasury of merit"? If so, and I guess I doubt it is, then we have another of those "same concept, different words" situations. But I hasten to add that it appears to me that there is at least some quantification of that merit in the Latin Church doctrine, that it is stored up some place waiting to be dispensed. That wouldn't be Orthodox at all. Am I misinterpreting this:
""For all who are in Christ, having his spirit, form one Church and cleave together in him" (Eph. 4:16). Therefore the union of the wayfarers with the brethren who have gone to sleep in the peace of Christ is not in the least weakened or interrupted, but on the contrary, according to the perpetual faith of the Church, is strengthened by a communication of spiritual goods. For by reason of the fact that those in heaven are more closely united with Christ, they establish the whole Church more firmly in holiness, lend nobility to the worship which the Church offers to God here on earth and in many ways contribute to building it up evermore (1 Cor. 12: 12-27). For after they have been received into their heavenly home and are present to the Lord (2 Cor. 5:8), through him and with him and in him they do not cease to intervene with the Father for us, showing forth the merits which they have won on earth through the one Mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ (1 Tim. 2:5), by serving God in all things and filling up in their flesh those things which are lacking of the sufferings of Christ for his Body which is the Church (Col. 1:24). Thus by their brotherly interest our weakness is greatly strengthened.(22)" INDULGENTIARUM DOCTRINA, 2:5
" Let us not forget that merit is an obverse of mercy."
I don't see this in +Paul VI's writing, certainly not in his excursus on the sacraments, the Liturgy and sacramentals. What am I missing?
" So the question arises, does the Church in the East teach that condemnation can go through an intermediate stage as well?"
Yes, both the saved and the damned, everyone, go through the "intermediate stage" in Orthodox theology. There is no concept of a mortal sin in Orthodoxy so the issue of immediate damnation into hell doesn't come up. You might be interested in this, the Orthodox Memorial Service which we pray at least on the 40th day after death, and the first and third anniversaries of a death (at least). In Orthodoxy, there is no substitute for this service and it is considered the most efficacious thing we can do for the souls of the departed.
"People: Blessed are You, O Lord, teach me Your commandments.
People: The choir of Saints has found the fountain of life and the door of Paradise. May I also find the way through repentance. I am the sheep that is lost: O Savior, call me back and save me.
People: Blessed are You, O Lord, teach me Your commandments.
People: Of old You created me from nothing and honored me with Your divine image. But when I disobeyed Your commandment, O Lord, You cast me down to the earth from where I was taken. Lead me back again to Your likeness, and renew my original beauty.
People: Blessed are you, O Lord, teach me Your commandments.
People: I am an image of Your ineffable glory, though I bear the scars of my transgressions. On Your creation, Master, take pity and cleanse me by Your compassion. Grant me the homeland for which I long and once again make me a citizen of Paradise.
People: Blessed are You, O Lord, teach me Your commandments.
People: Give rest, O God, to Your servant, and place him (her) in Paradise where the choirs of the Saints and the righteous will shine as the stars of heaven. To Your departed servant give rest, O Lord, and forgive all his (her) offenses.
People: Glory to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
People: The threefold radiance of the one God let us praise, and let us shout in song: Holy are You, eternal Father, coeternal Son, and divine Spirit! Illumine us who worship You in faith and deliver us from the eternal fire.
People: Now and forever and to the ages of ages. Amen.
People: Rejoice, gracious Lady, who for the salvation of all gave birth to God in the flesh, and through whom the human race has found salvation. Through you, pure and blessed Theotokos, may we find Paradise.
People: Alleluia. Alleluia. Alleluia. Glory to You, O God. (3)
With the Saints give rest, O Christ, to the soul of your servant (s) where there is no pain, nor sorrow, nor suffering, but life everlasting.
Tone Four
People: Among the spirits of the righteous perfected in faith, give rest, O Savior, to the soul(s) of Your servant(s). Bestow upon it (them) the blessed life which is from You, O loving One. Glory to you, our God, glory to you.
People: Within Your peace, O Lord, where all Your saints repose, give rest also to the soul of Your servant, for You alone are immortal.
People: Glory to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
People: You are our God who descended into Hades and loosened the pains of those who where chained. Grant rest also, O Savior, to the soul(s) of Your servant(s).
People: Now and forever and to the ages of ages. Amen.
People: Most pure and spotless Virgin, who ineffably gave birth to God, intercede with Him for the salvation of the soul(s) of your servant(s).
Priest: Have mercy upon us, O God, according to Your great love; we pray to You, hear us and have mercy.
People: Lord, have mercy. Lord, have mercy. Lord have mercy.
Priest: Again we pray for the repose of the soul(s) of the departed servant(s) of God (name[s]) who has/have fallen asleep, and for the forgiveness of all his/her/their sins, both voluntary and unvoluntary.
People: Lord, have mercy. Lord, have mercy. Lord have mercy.
Priest: May the Lord God place his/her/their soul(s) where the righteous repose. Let us ask for the mercies of God, the kingdom of Heaven, and the forgiveness of his/her/their sins from Christ our immortal king and God.
People: Grant this, O Lord.
Priest: Let us pray to the Lord.
People: Lord, have mercy.
Priest: O God of spirits and of all flesh , You have trampled down death and have abolished the power of the devil, giving life to Your world. Give rest to the soul(s) of Your departed servant(s) (name[s]) in a place of light, in a place of repose, in a place of refreshment, where there is no pain, sorrow, and suffering. As a good and loving God, forgive every sin he/she/they has/have committed in thought, word or deed, for there is no one who lives and is sinless. You alone are without sin. Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and Your word is truth.
Priest: For you are the resurrection, the life and the repose of Your departed servant(s) [name[s]), Christ our God, and to You we give glory, with Your eternal Father and Your all-holy, good and life-giving Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages.
People: Amen.
People: Glory to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages. Amen.
The Dismissal
Priest: Glory to You, O God, our hope, glory to You.
Priest: May Christ our true God, who rose from the dead and as immortal King has authority over the living and the dead, have mercy on us and save us, through the intercessions of his spotless and holy Mother; of the holy, glorious, and praiseworthy Apostles; of our venerable and God-bearing Fathers; of the holy and glorious forefathers Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; of his holy and righteous friend Lazaros, who lay in the grave four days; and of all the saints; establish the soul of His servant(s) (name[s]), departed from us, in the dwelling place of the saints; give rest to him in the bosom of Abraham and number him/her/them among the righteous.
People: Amen.
Priest: May your memory be eternal, dear brother/sister, for you are worthy of blessedness and everlasting memory.
People: Eternal be his/her/their memory. Eternal be his/her/their memory. May his/her/their memory be eternal.
Priest: Through the prayers of our holy Fathers, Lord Jesus Christ, our God, have mercy on us and save us.
People: Amen."
Yes, I agree that at least in the popular mind there is that quantification, which is in line with the general trend of the West to define the ineffable. It is definitely a significant difference, but I hesitate to call it a difference in dogma; I would call it a difference in phronema.
I don't see [the relationship between merit and mercy] in +Paul VI's writing
I will try to expound on this later, maybe tomorrow. I think the passage I cited relates the merit to the superabundant merit of the sacrifice of Christ, and the channel of connection is mercy, rather than any kind of purchase of merit for temporal suffering. Maybe I read the subtext into the actual words when I say so. I was thinking that as we know the Sacrifice of the Mass is not another sacrifice to augment Christ's, but a revivification of the same superabundantly efficacious sacrifice. Likewise, indulgenced work is not an addition to the suffering of Christ but rather a participation in that same suffering.
Yes, both the saved and the damned, everyone, go through the "intermediate stage" in Orthodox theology.
Aha. This is indeed, very significant.
Tell me something, please. What exactly do you mean when you speak of the "superabundant" merit of Christ's sacrifice? I would have thought that the perfect sacrifice would have been sufficient to its purpose, no more, no less, were I to quantify it at all, which I wouldn't. Am I misunderstanding the word? If not, I doubt an Orthodox person would even think in terms of "superabundancy" when it comes to the Incarnation.
"...the channel of connection is mercy, rather than any kind of purchase of merit for temporal suffering."
Spin that out, please. It is intriguing, Alex.
"Likewise, indulgenced work is not an addition to the suffering of Christ..."
I should think not!
"... but rather a participation in that same suffering."
Huh? You've lost me. +John Chrysostomos says that we share in Christ's death through baptism, but his suffering on the Cross, do we share that in any sense more tangibly than that all of our suffering in this life comes, ultimately, from sin, our own or those of others?
It is one of those crusty Catholic words. It originates, I believe, with St. Paul's Romans 5
16 And not as it was by one sin, so also is the gift. For judgment indeed was by one unto condemnation; but grace is of many offences, unto justification. 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned through one; much more they who receive abundance of grace, and of the gift, and of justice, shall reign in life through one, Jesus Christ. 18 Therefore, as by the offence of one, unto all men to condemnation; so also by the justice of one, unto all men to justification of life. 19 For as by the disobedience of one man, many were made sinners; so also by the obedience of one, many shall be made just. 20 Now the law entered in, that sin might abound. And where sin abounded, grace did more abound.
The word was used by Aquinas:
He properly atones for an offense who offers something which the offended one loves equally, or even more than he detested the offense. But by suffering out of love and obedience, Christ gave more to God than was required to compensate for the offense of the whole human race. First of all, because of the exceeding charity from which He suffered; secondly, on account of the dignity of His life which He laid down in atonement, for it was the life of one who was God and man; thirdly, on account of the extent of the Passion, and the greatness of the grief endured, as stated above (Question [46], Article [6]). And therefore Christ's Passion was not only a sufficient but a superabundant atonement for the sins of the human race; according to 1 Jn. 2:2: "He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world."(Summa III.48.2 "Whether Christ's Passion brought about our salvation by way of atonement?"
Annalex: the channel of connection is mercy
What I mean is that the indulgenced work is eficacious not because we are owed a compensation for it, but because we make a plea for divine mercy through it.
do we share [the suffering of Christ] in any sense more tangibly than that all of our suffering in this life comes, ultimately, from sin
I was thinking of these two passages in particular:
For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us: so also by Christ doth our comfort abound.6 Now whether we be in tribulation, it is for your exhortation and salvation: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation: or whether we be exhorted, it is for your exhortation and salvation, which worketh the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer. 7 That our hope for you may be steadfast: knowing that as you are partakers of the sufferings, so shall you be also of the consolation
(2 Corinthians 1)
24 Who [the faithful] now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church:
(Colossians 1)
The Catholic teaching is that our suffering allows us to participate in the suffering of Christ; we should distinguish between the suffering inflicted on us unvoluntarily due to sin, our own or others', and a suffering undertaken purposely to bring us closer to Christ.
Please let me know if I am not answering the question, I'll give it a better try tomorrow.
Thanks. I still don't get the superabundancy part. What +Paul is speaking of we would say is a passage, among others, which establishes Christ as the Second Adam. The quote from Aquinas I am sure isn't something he pulled out of thin air but I still don't see the point behind quantifying the effects of the Incarnation.
I do now see where you are coming from regarding the suffering question.
I think that Aquinas is trying to accurately describe the character of Christ's sacrifice. "Perfect" is not accurate because it implies something done just right but does not describe the extent. For example, a diamond is perfect, but it is not very big. "Infinite" is too abstract: a circle is infinite, and something that never ends in time is infinite. "Superabundance" describes a different aspect of infinity and perfection altogether: it is something that, no matter what quantity you put next to it, abounds more.
Those of us who studied calculus would remember mathematical definitions that go "for every Y > 0 there exists an X such that ...". For example, a function f is called of unlimited growth if for every Y > 0 there is an X such as f(X) > Y. This is precisely what both Paul and Aquinas are saying, -- for every offense there is a merit such that atones the offense. It is then, abundant over every offense, superabundant.
"Superabundance" describes a different aspect of infinity and perfection altogether: it is something that, no matter what quantity you put next to it, abounds more."
Oh. Thank-you.
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