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To: bornacatholic
There are those who insist on a restrictive view of EENS (extra ecclesia non salus, no salvation outside the church. They can, and should, be ignored. They have no authority. Their ideas about EENS have, for a LONG time, been condemned by the Living Magisterium.

Like Fr. Echert from the EWTN expert forum?

HERE

HERE

HERE

and

HERE

126 posted on 02/05/2006 6:49:29 PM PST by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: murphE
Do you truly think a priest posting opinions at ewtn trumps the Magisterium?

The Kepers Of Odd Knowledge Society might have that as a view. But, even nominal Catholics don't

137 posted on 02/06/2006 3:56:34 AM PST by bornacatholic
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To: murphE

THE ATTITUDE OF THE CATHOLIC INTELLECT

1. In the first place, wo see how truly humble is the attitude of the Catholic intellect. A man of real humility acknowledges the weakness, imperfection, ignorance, and darkness of his understanding. He finds it easy and natural to submit his intellect to the teaching of Almighty God. He would consider himself a fool beyond measure if he, a poor, blind creature, were to limit the truths of religion to those only which his own judgment approved or comprehended. A Catholic soul, then, is a humble soul; he prostrates himself adoringly before his God, and cries out: "O my God, I believe with all my heart whatever Thou teachest me."

In the eyes of the world, no doubt, it is absurd to believe what you cannot understand, but not so in the eyes of God. " Unless you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven." A Catholic possesses this childlike faith. A child does not criticize, or dispute, or call in question, or demand to know the reasons for everything that he is taught; he accepts it without suspicion an the authority of his teachers or his parents : for to the young mind these are virtually infallible. To us Almighty God is absolutely infallible; Him, then, we believe with the simplicity of little children. In so doing we are not afraid of being thought infantile, weak, slavish, unmanly. People who apply these epithets to us, as they do, neither know the nature of true faith nor possess it; and they are but pronouncing their own condemnation, according to the Scriptural standard. With our unhesitating, unquestioning, loving, adoring faith, like that of innocent children, we as Catholics are happy; and we know that it is immensely pleasing to God.

2. And how do we know this? Because it honours and glorifies Him so much; it is the noblest testimony our intellect can pay to Him; it is the proof of our limitless faith in His veracity. To give an instantaneous "Credo," even when He announces the most stupendous and impenetrable mysteries, surely argues sublime trust in Him. " If some Person," says Father St. Jure, S.J., in his beautiful "Treatise an the Knowledge and Love of Our Lord Jesus Christ" (vol. ii., chap. xx.), "asked me to believe for his sake that the sun is luminous, I do not think he would be greatly indebted to me for believing it, since my eyes deprive me of the power of doubting it; but if he wished me to believe that it is not luminous, I should testify great affection for him if, an his word, I admitted as true what my reason and will prove to be false; and I should give him the most signal tokens of the entire reliance I placed an his opinion, his judgment, the perfection of his sight. We therefore testify great love for God by believing simply, like children, all the mysteries of faith in which our reason is lost, and which our eyes not only see not, but often seem to See the contrary. Thus St. Paul says: “Charity believeth all things.' "

We know, too, from Our Lord Himself how pleasing to Him is this simple faith. You remember the touching incident an the apparition of the Risen Saviour to St. Thomas, one of the Twelve (St. John xx. 24 -29). Thomas was not present when Our Lord appeared to the Apostles the firnt Easter night ; and when told by them "We have seen the Lord," he refused to believe it, and declared: "Unless I shall see and handle Him, I will not believe." Hence he is called "the doubting Thomas." To satisfy him Our Lord graciously condescended to appear before him the following Sunday, and invited him, saying: "Put in thy finger hither and see my hands, and bring hither thy hand and put it into my side; and be not faithless but believing." On this St. Thomas believed, saying: " My Lord and my God!" "Jesus saith to him, Because thou hast seen Me, Thomas, thou hast believed; blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." In this sentence Our Lord pronounced a Divine eulogy an an act of faith. To believe without seeing, without proving -this is what pleases Him. For believing in his Lord's Resurrection after seeing Him risen, Thomas was deserving of no praise and no benediction, for he could not help believing then. To have credited it before proving it with his own eyes; to have assented to the word of his fellow Apostles; in short, to have taken it an faith - this would have won him praise and blessing. But he missed the blessing because, before believing, he insisted an having proof and demonstration. "Because thou hast seen Me, thou hast believed."

3. And not only is there no blessing and praise, but there is no merit, no credit, no reward for believing a thing after you have proved and tested and tried it. There is no merit, e.g., in believing in the ebb and flow of the tide, or in the law of gravitation, or in the existence of flying machines, because we can prove the truth of these things any day for ourselves; wo know they are facts from the evidence of our Benses. In the same way the angels and saints in Heaven are deserving of no reward and no merit for believing all the truths revealed by God, because they see God face to face, and all truth in Him; they know it, as theologians say, intuitively; they are constrained to believe, as they are constrained to love. The Beatific Vision is itself their reward. There is no room for faith in Heaven: faith is changed to sight. But to believe the dogmas of religion which are not susceptible of being tested by the senses, and whose mysteries wo cannot fathom; to believe unhesitatingly in the reality of persons and places and things we never saw and cannot prove by natural reason or evidence-this is something altogether different, something wonderful and sublime. It is worthy of all reward, because it is so contrary to our natural inclinations, and because it brings into play so much higher and nobler an act of man's intelligence. To believe, for example, with your whole heart and soul, in spite of all appearances to the contrary, that the Sacred Host is your Creator and your God under the species of bread, and that in Communion you receive God's Precious Body and Soul into your own body and soul; to believe that the Blessed Virgin was conceived without that guilt and stain of Bin which has rested an every other human being that ever lived; to believe in the existence of souls in Purgatory. and that indulgences can be applied by the living to assist them-I say to believe all this, and muck else in the Catholic Faith, needs faith-intense, profound, stupendous faith, in short, Divine faith-and nothing less. It is not an ordinary act of the intellect, it is extraordinary-indeed, supernatural-and only a Catholic is capable of it. He accepts these truths of Revelation because God has taught them to him, and for this reason only; and for that God will reward him. He is not compelled to believe them against his will, as he is compelled to believe mathematical truths. Twice two are four; the whole is greater than the part; you have no choice there; you must believe that : it is what we call a " geometrical necessity." But the Immaculate Conception, Purgatory, the Real Presence- a man is free to reject them and take the consequences. Thousands and millions, as a matter of fact, have rejected them. In doing so they sin, more or less; in accepting them, you merit a reward exceeding great. “Blessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed.


138 posted on 02/06/2006 4:00:35 AM PST by bornacatholic
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To: murphE
Please ping all CDSSPX (Commitee for the Defense of the SSPX)members.

Y'all hold to a restrictive idea of EENS. That being the case, what dos that mean for the sspx founder,Lefevbre?

He was excomunicated and died excommunicated.

Isn't Lefevbre in Hell an inescapable consequence of your EENS theology?

210 posted on 02/07/2006 2:53:25 PM PST by bornacatholic
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