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The Church or the Bible
scriptual catholcism ^ | 1888 | Fr. Arnold Damen, S.J.

Posted on 02/04/2006 1:47:00 PM PST by bornacatholic

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This is intended merely to present the Catholic side. It is not intended as an attack on the Faith of any Freeper or lurker.
1 posted on 02/04/2006 1:47:05 PM PST by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic
It is not intended as an attack on the Faith of any Freeper or lurker.

When you say your church is "the only true church", many will indeed see that as an attack on their Faith and/or church. This is a sleight-of-hand the Mormons have become quite adept at. They insist that THEY are the "one true church" and when people make the case that this can't possibly be true, they complain "Why are you attacking us? We aren't attacking you!"

When a church claims to be "the one true church" they had better not be surprised when others put that claim to test.

2 posted on 02/04/2006 2:11:22 PM PST by GLDNGUN
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To: bornacatholic

I love this line:

"Hence, Christ never said to His Apostles, "Go and write Bibles and distribute them, and let everyone judge for himself." That injunction was reserved for the Sixteenth Century, and we have seen the result of it. Ever since the Sixteenth Century there have been springing up religion upon religion, and churches upon churches, all fighting and quarreling with one another."


3 posted on 02/04/2006 2:47:08 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: bornacatholic

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Further, we are begotten through the word. The Catholic Church and all denominations with their creeds and conventions are the ones guilty of private interpretation. Wills often come with conditions attached if one wants to receive the inheritance. Christ's will comes with the terms He has set down if we want the inheritance (salvation). Faith (Heb 11:6), repentance (Acts 17:30), confession (Rom 10:10), baptism (Acts 2:38) and living the Christian life (1st John 1:7). The word was committed to the apostles by the Holy Spirit Who helped carry it throughout the known world (Col 1:23) and Who commintted it to us through the written word for generations to come. Each of us are individually accountable to meet God on His terms; and his commands are not grevious. (Baptism, transliterated from the Greek Baptizo, meaning to immerse, dip, or plunge beneath. Private interpretation of this word can change its meaning.) No offense.


4 posted on 02/04/2006 2:53:54 PM PST by DX10
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To: bornacatholic

Why NOT have Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition?

Even non-Catholics know that many storieis were handed down person to person and not recorded in the Bible.


5 posted on 02/04/2006 2:56:08 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Kolokotronis

Instead Christ said, "Go and make disciples, baptizing them in the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."


6 posted on 02/04/2006 2:57:27 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: GLDNGUN
When you say your church is "the only true church", many will indeed see that as an attack on their Faith and/or church.

Until the Prots stop their self-righteous, condescending, prideful, arrogant, self-congratulatory thread hijacking of any Catholic thread, I'll take it into consideration.

-CTID, hellbound Papist Mariolater.
7 posted on 02/04/2006 3:14:31 PM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: DX10
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Further, we are begotten through the word. The Catholic Church and all denominations with their creeds and conventions are the ones guilty of private interpretation.

All Protestants are guilty of this as well. Difference is, the Catholic Church was assigned to do this.
8 posted on 02/04/2006 3:16:22 PM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: Salvation

"Instead Christ said, "Go and make disciples, baptizing them in the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

Precisely!


9 posted on 02/04/2006 3:17:40 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis
Christ never said to His Apostles, "Go and write Bibles and distribute them, and let everyone judge for himself.

John 20:31, [But these things are written that you "may" (some early manuscripts add "continue to") believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.]

10 posted on 02/04/2006 3:36:19 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: bornacatholic
Some food for thought????

Mark 16:9-20

On the other hand John 6:40 simply says, [For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.] Nothing said about baptism.

11 posted on 02/04/2006 4:07:26 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: Kolokotronis; Salvation

Respectfully...How does that quote support the Catholic church in being the only true faith? I look forward to your reply...

Blessings in our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus.


12 posted on 02/04/2006 6:58:23 PM PST by phatus maximus (John 6:29...Learn it, love it, live it...)
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To: phatus maximus

"Respectfully...How does that quote support the Catholic church in being the only true faith?"

I don't think I said it did, did I?


13 posted on 02/04/2006 6:59:44 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: bornacatholic
As I understand it, it was against 'Catholic' law for Catholics to read the bible for many centuries...I understand why...And I understand the reason for this person's attack on the bible...And here's one example:

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body.

One will notice Christ is the 'head' of the church...There is no pope...There is no priest to forgive your sins...In fact:
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Boy is that simple...No wonder these people hate the bible...

Just for the record, I was 'saved', and then baptized...
But what are we all counting on to get us to heaven??? Some of us are counting on the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ...And some of us apparently are counting on the City Water Supply...

Joh 1:30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
Joh 1:31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.

John claims he was baptizing with 'water' to proclaim Jesus to Israel...Not a Christian or Gentile in the whole bunch...He wasn't preaching the Head of the Church...The 'mystery of the church wasn't revealed until Jesus revealed it to the Apostle Paul...Peter didn't even initially know about the church...

Joh 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
Joh 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

The baptism by water 'for salvation' was eventually eliminated...Check out Acts: 8, 9, 10, and 11 etc...

It's pretty clear why some churches want to plant the seeds of disbelief in the bible...Oh, and by the way;

Act 13:49 And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.

Appears as tho the believers were writing out copies as fast as their fingers would move, contrary to what some may say...

14 posted on 02/04/2006 7:59:43 PM PST by Iscool (Start your own revolution by voting for the candidates the media (and gov't) tells you cannot win.)
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To: Conservative til I die

I'm sorry I've missed this part, exactly when did this assignment come?


15 posted on 02/04/2006 8:27:51 PM PST by whispering out loud (the bible is either 100% true, or in it's very nature it is 100% a lie)
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To: Diego1618
A little more food for thought, Ephesians 2;8,9 "for it is by Grace through faith you are saved, and that not of yourself it is a gift of God not of works lest any one should boast." I think it is safe to say that no one would deny that baptism is a physical work. The scripture here is clear that there is no physical work that can save us, not to say now that baptism is not important, no on the other hand I believe it as very important, but it is the action of one who has already accepted Christ. We are not saved by our works, instead we are saved to do those works. There was also a thief on the cross beside Christ, when he questioned our Lord, the scriptures do not state that they hopped down of the cross so he could be baptized, no instead the scriptures tell us that Christ mearly replied "Today you will be with me in paradise." The scriptures are also very clear that God is no respector of persons. This means what he will do for one he will do for all. That being said we are commanded as Christians to follow Gods commands, so if we are truly saved we will have a desire to do as he asked. I guess what I am trying to say is that baptism is not a requirement of Salvation, but if one has truly given their life to Christ, then they will have a desire to follow him in believers baptism. To rely upon baptism for your salvation is to take away from the gift of Grace that God has provided through Christ, and puts an unbearable burden on man to earn his own salvation which cannot be done as our righteousness is as filthy rags.
16 posted on 02/04/2006 8:40:53 PM PST by whispering out loud (the bible is either 100% true, or in it's very nature it is 100% a lie)
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To: phatus maximus

LOL! I was just responding to the ridiculously funny post that Kolokotronis posted!


17 posted on 02/04/2006 8:43:57 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Iscool

**As I understand it, it was against 'Catholic' law for Catholics to read the bible for many centuries...**

Where are you getting this faulty Catholic information. This has never been the truth. We have always read the Bible and had first, second readings, a Psalm and a Gospel at each and every Mass.

Your post is outrageous.


18 posted on 02/04/2006 8:46:00 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: whispering out loud

Paragraphs, please.

My eyes won't do something like that post.


19 posted on 02/04/2006 8:47:05 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation
My apologies, were you able to decipher my chicken scratch?
20 posted on 02/04/2006 8:48:33 PM PST by whispering out loud (the bible is either 100% true, or in it's very nature it is 100% a lie)
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