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To: Romish_Papist

Well we all have our beliefs. You think your church is the only right one - and many would disagree. I don't remember that Christ was a Christian - that church was started by people - Christ had plenty of time to start a specific religion if he wanted to...


212 posted on 03/09/2006 4:12:47 PM PST by The Worthless Miracle ("Better put some ice on that")
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To: The Worthless Miracle

No, the Church was instituted by Christ: "...and on this Rock I will build my Church..." Words of Jesus Christ in Matthew 16:18. The Church is founded by Christ, and it is He who is its head (Ephesians 5:23)and its body (same verse). He who identifies Himself as "the Truth" (John 14:06) and the Holy Spirit, speaking through St. Paul, calls the Church the "pillar and ground of the Truth" (1Timothy 3:15). Jesus is the Rock upon which the Church rests, and many times in Scripture the allusion to a "rock" is an allusion to Christ.

Even so, He established an earthly authority for the Church upon the shoulders of Peter, whom He deliberately names Rock (Kepha in Aramaic) to signify that, although Peter is only a man, he is to be vested with the power of Christ in leading His Church here on earth after Jesus' ascension. Lest Peter, the other Apostles or their successors take the credit (and lest you misinterpret what I'm saying!), it is clear from Scripture that Peter, the Apostles and their successors are to guide the Church through the power of the Holy Spirit, who will lead the Church into "all the Truth" (John 16:12-15). And Jesus promised that He would be with the Church "all days" even unto the end of time (Matthew 28:20), thus indicating that, though the men leading the Church are only men, they are guided by God, and cannot fail in their transmission of the true Faith. It is thus a false charge to say that the Church is merely led by men and therefore is of no account. It is led visibly by men who, in turn, are spiritually led by God in matters of the Faith, and are exercising their ministries by the authority of God and according to His express wish.

Their authority pertains to many things, including the ability, guided by the Holy Spirit, to determine the canon of Scripture and to interpret Scripture. You unwittingly acknowledge their authority every time you cite the New Testament as authoritative, even while you implicitly reject their equal authority to determine the Old Testament canon by using a text that is seven books short of what they determined the canonical list to be. You can't even demonstrate *why* you hold to the New Testament canon you use, and must resort to circumlocutions to defend it, because you dare not acknowledge the true authority behind its legitimacy: the Catholic bishops and popes of the fourth and fifth Centuries, successors, respectively, of the Apostles and their earthly head, Simon Peter.

Therefore, you assert that the Church doesn't matter, because it was only started by mere people. I urge you to read this thread again, carefully, all the way through the posts, and "pull on the string" of its implications. Then, read the early history of the Church, especially the writings of the Fathers. Test them against Scripture, and juxtapose their testimony against *both* the modern Catholic Church's teachings and the teachings of your own denomination. You'll be amazed at what you discover, and, if you have the courage to see Truth as Christ Himself presented it, you will soon have a different opinion of things than you do at present. Accept the Truth, for in so doing, you are accepting Christ Himself!


215 posted on 03/09/2006 5:07:31 PM PST by magisterium
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