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To: Romish_Papist

"As far as God being impressed with anything, I will not say what He is or is not impressed with, but I imagine He knew what He was doing when He founded His Church"

Yup. But it's not the Catholic Church. It's the body of Christ, all true believers who come directly to the Father by Him, not by a priest or Pope. Jesus NEVER taught those things! There were no priests or popes in the apostolic churches.


252 posted on 03/10/2006 7:54:59 AM PST by RoadTest ("- - a popular government cannot flourish without virtue in the people." - Richard Henry Lee, 1786)
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To: RoadTest
Jesus NEVER taught those things!

You mean like how Jesus taught Sola-Scriptura?

There were no priests or popes in the apostolic churches.

Once again, read all of Scripture and study the history of the Christian Church

The word "priest" is simply the English form of the Greek word "presbyteros" or "presbyter." Are you seriously telling me that "presbyters" are no where in the Apostolic Churches?

Second, the "Pope" is the Bishop of Rome. I already struck down with historical and Biblical evidence your contention that there was no Apostolic succession and I demonstrated, Biblically, that Peter wrote an Epistle from Rome.

Where on earth are you getting your information? Jack Chick?
257 posted on 03/10/2006 8:06:40 AM PST by mike182d ("Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?")
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To: RoadTest
You may choose to come to the Father directly by yourself. No fault with that. But Christ Himself said often that His disciples were chosen (by God Himself as per the following passage from John) ...chosen and designated to carry on Christ's work on earth (including adminstering sacraments such as baptism)....because upon Jesus' death, his work on earth...was done.

Christ's prayer for Himself and His disciples, as recorded in John, is very descriptive about this:

JOHN 17: Jesus Prays for Himself
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
Jesus Prays for His Disciples
6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.
7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You.
8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.
9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.
10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.
11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth."
265 posted on 03/10/2006 8:25:23 AM PST by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: RoadTest

I'd be delighted to see some evidence to back up your assertion. Heck, I'm still waiting for direction from you to the quote you allege is in the Catholic Encyclopedia that says we believe Christ is "slaughtered" anew at Mass.

There is MASSIVE testimony to the existence of priests, bishops, popes, sacraments, purgatory (that *is* the point to this thread's title, after all) and a host of other "Cathoic" beliefs and practices during and immediately after the Apostolic Era. Several of us on this thread have already asked you to take a look at several sites with those sources. It seems you haven't and won't bother to look. I'm afraid there's nothing else for us to do on a forum like this, where there is an expectation of give-and-take between posters. You're not contributing to your end of that, so the conversation is pretty stultified.

Meantime, your latest passing shot seems to indicate that unity of faith is not at all important, as long as the lowest-common-denominator of acknowledging Christ is in place. Given the quick erosion and self-immolation of Christianity (in the generic sense) in much of the world, underway, in large measure, precisely because of our lack of unity, I'd be interested to hear your explanation for this lack of importance for unity in orthordoxy and orthopraxis.


270 posted on 03/10/2006 8:36:04 AM PST by magisterium
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