ummm... didn't he HANG hisself or something???
Posted on 04/06/2006 7:11:35 PM PDT by freedom44
This sounds like just another of the "Gnostic Gospels" many of which were discovered in Dag Hamadi (sp?) in Egypt in the 1940s. Written a couple of hundred years after the real Gospels, they were a heresy well-known from history - though the actualy works didn't reappear til the 1940s.
Really, there is no "there" there. Its an old story. It is interesting from a historical perspective, but as for religious guidance its credibility is close to nil...
I'll stick with the King James of 1611 the version that has the anointing. The rest of these **other books** are pretty much worthless. All through the ages all these other secret books have been put out trying to put a spin on who Jesus is NOT. Don't believe any of them...
You are referring to the Neg Hamadi scrolls and yes, this sounds very similar.
Interesting from a historical perspective, as this sort of thing does show some of the tribulations of the early Christian Church.
I understand and do not disagree with what you are saying here... but at the same time one wonders about his personal accountability since what he did was necessary in order for prophecy to be fulfilled and for Christ to die for our salvation. This kinda gets into that confusing area between free-will and pre-destination.
I am just glad it is not my place to pass judgement upon Judas.
Judas is the most problematic of the disciples. His fervor and commitment to the Lord have never been in question. His behavior in sacrificing Jesus was undoubtedly motivated by his deep belief that Jesus would escape the snares of his enemies as he had done many times before. On this occasion, we can assume, Judas believed that Jesus would establish his earthly kingdom.
The betrayal of Judas is the same betrayal of which each of us is guilty. We seek an earthly kingdom and sacrifice our spiritual gifts to achieve our vision.
The image of Judas as co conspirator with Jesus is not a contemporary view. It is based in a belief that spirit can only escape flesh through death. This is not our understanding of Jesus. Traditional Christianity views Jesus as the perfection of the human condition fulfilled by the perfect presence of God. Jesus' death is a terrible sacrifice. His ressurection from death, His return to life, provides a Way for mankind to overcome sin sickness and share in the perfection of Jesus as Christ. It is not at all clear that the writer of this early heresy accepted the earthly divinity of Jesus.
The fragment is from the Persian tradition of Manichaeism, a Roman view from the 3rd century that held a belief in cosmic dualism in which the flesh and material existence are evil and the realm of the spirit is good. The early church was very clear that this view is heretical.
Was Judas in the will of God?
ummm... didn't he HANG hisself or something???
Who is of Judas?
One of my friends in church pointed out that Judas seemed to be the most disappointed in the fact that Jesus did not establish an earthly kingdom right away. Apparently, there was a school of thought at that time which expected the descendant of Old Testament kings to kick out the Romans and other undesirables and establish a new Holy Land. Of course, Jesus repeatedly explained that was not God's plan but some people never listen...
Well, directly it was the Romans, but He knew that was going to be the outcome when He surrended to them. So, indirectly, Yes.
2 Timothy 3 16 All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 so that one who belongs to God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
Take note in the above quoted text, from the KJV, that scripture is with the lower case "scripture" instead of the upper case "Scripture". When in lower case, it refers literally to ALL scriptures or writings.. only when it is upper case, does it specifically mean Holy Writings. Further, if Christ HAD been referring to Holy Script, then he would not have been referring to ANY books of what are now the New Testament, nor to anything called "The Bible" since they did not exist in his lifetime.
Those books which are included in the Bible were decided by MEN. The Church itself readily explains why the book of Thomas, which being written closest to the time of Christ makes many theologians suspect it to be the most accurate Gospel, was left out. A single phrase, which quotes Christ as saying...
"Jesus said: I am the light that is above them all. I am the all; the all came forth from me, and the all attained to me. Cleave a (piece of) wood; I am there. Raise up a stone, and you will find me there." (My emphasis added)
The Church interpreted this phrase as meaning one could find Christ wherever one sought him, and that one did not need the Church to be your intermediary. They viewed this phrase as a threat to the authority of the Church, thus rejected the book. I dunno about you, but I am not putting my faith in men, especially when what they are preaching is self serving.
Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is within you and it is outside you.
It is easy to see why the Church would view such passages as a threat to the authority of the Church.
Thanks for the scripture. It is always timely to speak of the foundation of the church, the inner Revelation of Jesus Christ, against which the gates of hell shall not prevail.
Can you tell me the version, chapter and verse you quoted?
It's easy to see why Christians would view those passages as promoting pantheism rather than Christianity.
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