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To: AnAmericanMother
Nope, I've read the Gospels in the original Greek, and that material is plainly there for all to read. We have more copies of the Gospels (and the Acts of the Apostles) in the original Greek than most texts from the ancient world (many of which we do in fact have only in later Latin translations -- but that is NOT the case with the NT).

Yup. Whoop de do you've read the gospels in Greek. Doesn't matter what language. If you want to assume groups such as the Pharisees were raving lunatics, kniving conspirators involved in a plot to kill their own people that's your problem.

The idea about "writers, redactors, and interpolators in Rome" is simply a red herring thrown up by those who insist on treating eastern-Mediterranean Jews as anti-Semites because they report negatively on their persecutors.

You got it. All except for the red herring part.

33 posted on 04/17/2006 7:05:04 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
If you want to assume groups such as the Pharisees were raving lunatics, kniving conspirators involved in a plot to kill their own people that's your problem.

There's plenty of evidence from Jewish sources that some of the Sadduccees, including the Temple Sanhedrin, in the late 2nd temple period were Roman quislings who would have happily killed off a homegrown holy man if they thought he threatened their relationship with their Roman overlords.

35 posted on 04/17/2006 7:10:00 AM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
You can whoop all you want, but the date and original language of the Gospels mean that Rome had nothing to do with the state of the received text. At the time our first copies of the Gospels and Acts were written, Rome was still very much pagan, and had zero interest in revising or altering the obscure texts of what to them was an annoying cult on the fringes of the Empire. That was my point.

Of course the religious authorities in Jerusalem were conspiring to wipe out Jesus's followers. That isn't disputed by anyone. Their motives, however, had to do with the fear of attracting attention from the occupying authorities, not with race hatred. Caiaphas is quoted in one of the Passion Gospels as stating that it was better that one man should be sacrificed than the entire people. The religious authorities were trying to avoid what happened soon afterwards with the revolt and destruction of the Temple in A.D. 70.

The idea that this had anything to do with "anti-Semitism" as it is currently understood ignores the politics of the eastern Mediterranean at the time.

40 posted on 04/17/2006 7:17:13 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
If you want to assume groups such as the Pharisees were raving lunatics, kniving conspirators involved in a plot to kill their own people that's your problem.

You don't have to look at the NT for that, we can see a lot of older stuff like Cain and Abel, Saul, David and Absolom, The Sons of Israel and Joseph, Ahab, Ahaziah and the rest of the Book of Kings for that matter. You don't need to worry about the anti-Semitism of the NT prophets, the Old Testament prophets and writers seemed to be rending their garments over God's chosen people as well.

54 posted on 04/18/2006 9:36:53 PM PDT by TradicalRC (No longer to the right of the Pope...)
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