Looking Eastward - IS THERE HOPE FOR CATHOLIC-ORTHODOX REUNION?

New Oxford Review ^ | November 2003 | Charles A. Coulombe

[NYer]

Glad you enjoyed it. Good to see you back in the forum. Best regards to your mom!

[Cheverus]

I did an internet search and he appears to be well thought of, but I also thought Meyendorff was well thought of as well and I am apparently wrong.

I think maybe he would be one of those "not truly Orthodox" fellows which the article references.

Here's just one brief bio, the web is loaded with his stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Solovyov_(philosopher)

[Maeve]

Don't worry, dear Campion, on the selfsame issue I've stomped on a young Ukrainian Greek-Catholic priest so hard I'm sure it must have been for the both of us.

[Kolokotronis]

"Is Likoudis using a pen-name?"

Nah. The excerable Likoudis knows his Byzantine history; that's why he's so good at putting a Roman spin on it to spread hate and discord. The boob who wrote this article doesn't even know who the last emperor was, the emperor when The City fell in 1453! I just love it when a half educated but ever so self assured polemicist says something like,
"Married to this poor theological background is even poorer historical knowledge." and makes an utter fool of himself eight lines later. Unfortunately, there is an even more uneducated group who will read this foolishness and swallow it whole.

A couple of weeks ago I spoke with one of the theologians involved with the dialog now ongoing with Rome. I commented to him that there seemed to be quite a contingent among some vocal Latins which seemed at great pains to insist on a renewal, or perhaps a maintenance, of the old medieval papal supremacy (read everybody must "submit") arguments while at the same time denigrating Orthodox theology and praxis. I asked him if he had noticed such a thing and if so what his reaction was. He said that he hadn't mentioned it until one of his Latin Rite interlocutors had spoken about it and expressed some concern as these sorts seem to be getting quite vocal. Apparently the Roman delegation is not at all happy about this and are worried that this talk will lead to a break down in the dialog. Unfortunately it may well lead to that as there are Orthodox who are very leery of any rapprochement with Rome (though actually on account of discipline type matters and what those Orthodox see as a sort of secular humanistic syncretism in Western Catholicism. The question has been asked if Rome really does want a reestablishment of communion or merely submission. The writings of persons like the author of this piece and especially of the Likoudis types lead me to believe that intercommunion on a Church-wide basis is highly unlikely and probably highly undesirable at this point in history.

[Carlos Martillo II]

Rome has reunified with some of the Eastern Christians; I think that's about as far as it will go. The remaining Orthodox will never submit to the Eastern (Catholic) Patriarchs, and Rome certainly couldn't expect the Eastern Patriarchs to submit to the Orthodox hierarchy.

I don't think unification is all that critical. If 8 in 10 Russian pregnancies results in an abortion, you have to wonder about the future of Christianity in some of those countries anyway.

[FormerLib]

If 8 in 10 Russian pregnancies results in an abortion...

Care to cite a modern & reputable source on that?

[Straight Vermonter]

One of my favorite stories!

[Straight Vermonter]

Is it really helpful to still be caught up in events that happened nearly a millennium ago? Everything you say about the sack is true. That is why the participants were excommunicated. The question now is what could the Latin Church do to assuage your anger?

I assure you that many of us in the Latin rite would crawl on our knees from Rome to Constantinople if it would bring about a reunion.

[Straight Vermonter]

All sources seem to say it is actually about 60%. Which is heart breaking enough.

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=lang_en&q=russia+abortion+rate

[x5452]

The poles were still opressing the Orthodox in the last 80 years.

[x5452]

That's a farily dated statistic and even still its been ilegal after 12 weeks for over a decade.

[Bohemund]

I would hate to see rapprochement between the Eastern and Western parts of the Church spoiled by ignorant partisans. I am glad to hear that the Latin participants in the dialog are aware of and disapprove of the chauvinistic disruptors.

As for me, a Roman Catholic, I would love to see communion restored with our Orthodox brothers; questions of church governance matter less to me.

[Straight Vermonter]

That's a farily dated statistic and even still its been ilegal after 12 weeks for over a decade.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Is it ok at 8 weeks or 10 weeks but not at 12?

However, I must say that this is extremely good news.

[x5452]

It is ilegal in Russia under any circumstance to have an abortion after the 1st trimester.

Something FAR MORE CONSERVATIVE than our own law.

[Straight Vermonter]

what those Orthodox see as a sort of secular humanistic syncretism in Western Catholicism.

Trust me, we see it as the same thing. The last 2 popes have worked, with mixed success, to get rid of this heresy.

This is the reason behind the emergence of new Catholic colleges in the US which seeks to provide a refuge for students and theologians who can no longer study at the heretical Catholic colleges which signed the "Land O' Lakes accord".

[x5452]

Then you should call on your church to not use obscure laws to kick orthodox out of churches and steal the land in East Europe.

If this seems trivial to you imagine episcopals petitioning the government successfull to remove you, your parish members, and priest, from the property because it now belongs to the episcopal church.

[FormerLib]

If 8 in 10 Russian pregnancies results in an abortion...

Care to cite a modern & reputable source on that?

All sources seem to say it is actually about 60%. Which is heart breaking enough.

Yes, it is heart breaking but thanks for disproving the original lie.

[Cheverus]

Alright:

A lie is defined as "any deliberate deception", an error in facts is not a lie, it is an error, to call it a lie is a personal attack.

Charity....

[FormerLib]

...an error in facts is not a lie, it is an error...

You are arguing "facts not in evidence." If he retracts the error and admits it was such, than I will do likewise with my assertion. But given the context of the discussion, I believe it more likely that he pulled numbers out of his head to defame the Russian people.

[Cheverus]

I can very easily see how someone could look at raw statistics that equaled 60% and miscalculate 80%

I argue that it is better to give someone the benefit of the doubt than to start personal attacks.

I read someplace that everyone makes mistakes (except one or two dependent on Theological perspective).....now I don't have a source for this and could be wrong, but I am certainly not trying to decieve.

charity....