Catholic School Teacher Fired for Having In Vitro

ABC News ^ | May 11, 2006

[ninenot]

"...could have been handled better..."

Not really. She ANNOUNCED her in-vitro-ization to the principal, and then proceeded with it.

Like all other teachers in that school, she has a contract which includes a "morals" clause.

So if the school does NOT fire her and someone else with the same contract does something (bop a student, e.g.), the school has an established treatment pattern.

Under US and State labor laws, one cannot discriminate in treatment of employees under contract matters.

[armydoc]

Do you say that helping their neighbors is the same thing as saying that the couple sees their fertility as a disease?

No, because the intent of helping one's neighbor is not to thwart procreation. The intent of NFP is to separate sex from procreation. Is an intent to separate sex from procreation sinful?

[ninenot]

Good point. See "reductionism."

[Hemingway's Ghost]

Only on FR would there be exactly zero compassion for a couple that tried for five years to achieve pregnancy but couldn't; finally achieved it through IV; and gave birth to two healthy children. These people wanted to become parents so badly that they went through all this trouble, and everyone sneers and says the woman got what was coming to her because she got canned from her job at a Catholic school.

There but for the grace of God . . .

[armydoc]

Let's see what the CCC has to say in the matter:

2377 Techniques involving only the married couple (homologous artificial insemination and fertilization) are perhaps less reprehensible, yet remain morally unacceptable. They dissociate the sexual act from the procreative act. The act which brings the child into existence is no longer an act by which two persons give themselves to one another, but one that "entrusts the life and identity of the embryo into the power of doctors and biologists and establishes the domination of technology over the origin and destiny of the human person. Such a relationship of domination is in itself contrary to the dignity and equality that must be common to parents and children." "Under the moral aspect procreation is deprived of its proper perfection when it is not willed as the fruit of the conjugal act, that is to say, of the specific act of the spouses' union . . . . Only respect for the link between the meanings of the conjugal act and respect for the unity of the human being make possible procreation in conformity with the dignity of the person."

So, when procreation is not willed as the fruit of the specific act of the spouses' union, it is not God's will, correct?

[hispanichoosier]

I know a couple who is heartbroken because they cant conceive. Sometimes concessions should be made.

There are licit means for helping subfertile couples. The Pope Paul VI Institute in Omaha is one example. It's website is here.

My wife and I tried to conceive for 3 years before Dr. Mark Stegman (now in the Harrisburg, PA area), who was trained at the Pope Paul VI Institute, operated on my wife's endometriosis. Dr. Stegman prescribed femara for ovulation and progesterone for pregnancy support. Our son was born in January!

[hispanichoosier]

If it is the joy of rearing and loving a child that a couple wants they should seriously consider adoption.

While adoption is certainly a moral good (and I agree with the Church's position on IVF), the joy in having a child is not simply the rearing of that child. The travails that a mother goes through while her child is in utero, the wonder as the child kicks for the first time, etc. all are also times of joy that men and women long to experience.

[bornacatholic]

The end (not having a baby) does not justify all means. NFP violates neither the spirit or the law.

In your marriage, during the time your wife was/is fertile, do you/have you always have sexual intercourse with her? If not, acrd to your logic, you are doing the same thing as those who use contraceptives

[klossg]

armydoc, you state: "The intent of NFP is to separate sex from procreation."

No. We are back to your definition of contraception but substituting NFP, as if they were the same. Once again you speak of the end as if means are non-material. See post 58 by VeritatisSplendor.

Is there a difference between abstaining during the most fertile time and having sex during the fertile time while using contraception? Same intent. NFP never separates sex from procreation - unless used improperly.

FYI ... From Humanae Vitae: section 21: The honest practice of regulation of birth demands first of all that husband and wife acquire and possess solid convictions concerning the true values of life and of the family, and that they tend towards securing perfect self-mastery. To dominate instinct by means of one's reason and free will undoubtedly requires ascetical practices, so that the affective manifestations of conjugal life may observe the correct order, in particular with regard to the observance of periodic continence. Yet this discipline which is proper to the purity of married couples, far from harming conjugal love, rather confers on it a higher human value. It demands continual effort yet, thanks to its beneficent influence, husband and wife fully develop their personalities, being enriched with spiritual values. Such discipline bestows upon family life fruits of serenity and peace, and facilitates the solution of other problems; it favors attention for one's partner, helps both parties to drive out selfishness, the enemy of true love; and deepens their sense of responsibility. By its means, parents acquire the capacity of having a deeper and more efficacious influence in the education of their offspring; little children and youths grow up with a just appraisal of human values, and in the serene and harmonious development of their spiritual and sensitive faculties.

[Ainast]

What about the lesbian priest? what happens when she and her lover want to have a kid? I bet they will allow that. funny huh.

[Wonder Warthog]

"So, when procreation is not willed as the fruit of the specific act of the spouses' union, it is not God's will, correct?"

Correct. If there is no "specific act", then there is no sin. Abstention (i.e. no "specific act" takes place) during fertile periods is NOT sinful.

[Nihil Obstat]

you are thinking of the church down the street and on the left.

[klossg]

"Let's see what the CCC has to say in the matter"

You should be Catholic. You care so very much. I am inspired by your search for truth. Stay consistent and don't let the huge gaps occur and you are fab Catholic. Keeping us NFP users honest and seeing importance in sex and life and procreation.

You sure you're not still Catholic?

[petitfour]

If I had $1.00 for every Catholic we know who is on birth control or was on birth control and has now been snip-snipped or tied, then we would be rich indeed. And I cannot imagine that they do not know the teachings of the Catholic Church on the subject. Their children go through all the rituals of confirmation and what-not while the parents live the way they want.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"In your "disease" analogy, NFP does look at fertility as a type of disease, like active herpes, to be avoided."

Why, no, it's not that way at all. It's looking at fertility as something sacred. It's like Holy Communion. Sex with a condom is like receiving Holy Communion and then deliberately vomiting out the Sacred Host. If you're not properly prepared to receive the gift of Holy Communion, don't go through the motions and then spit it out. Just respectfully refrain.

[armydoc]

The end (not having a baby) does not justify all means. NFP violates neither the spirit or the law. In your marriage, during the time your wife was/is fertile, do you/have you always have sexual intercourse with her? If not, acrd to your logic, you are doing the same thing as those who use contraceptives

Hey, you're talking to a Protestant, here. You don't have to convince me that marital sex without the intent of procreation is O.K. You might have a problem with CCC #2377, however (see post 65).

[Mrs. Don-o]

Lesbian priest? Un-be-FReepin-lievable. Have you been smokin' that wacky tobaccy?

[Ainast]

I did have me a bag of big league chew. hmmmmmm

[armydoc]

Correct. If there is no "specific act", then there is no sin. Abstention (i.e. no "specific act" takes place) during fertile periods is NOT sinful.

I am talking about the specific act of sex during a nonfertile period by a couple practicing NFP. By definition, procreation is not willed by this couple as a fruit of that specific act, correct?

[spunkets]