CATHOLIC HEROES OF THE HOLOCAUST

ELIZABETH ALTHAM

[wideawake]

It's footnoted.

[Aquinasfan]

My Polish grandfather was a civil engineer. One day there was a knock on the door. The Nazis wanted him to help rebuild a bridge that was blown up by the Polish resistance. He refused and was taken away and shot.

[pbear8]

Is it ever!

[khnyny]

Haven't had time to read your entire post, will bump for later!

Check out the following:

http://www.catholicleague.org/pius/truth.htm

Excerpt:

"The Jewish Community publicly acknowledged the wisdom of Pope Pius XII’s diplomacy. In September 1945, Dr. Joseph Nathan—who represented the Hebrew Commission—stated "Above all, we acknowledge the Supreme Pontiff and the religious men and women who, executing the directives of the Holy Father, recognized the persecuted as their brothers and, with great abnegation, hastened to help them, disregarding the terrible dangers to which they were exposed." In 1958, at the death of Pope Pius XII, Golda Meir sent an eloquent message: "We share in the grief of humanity. …When fearful martyrdom came to our people, the voice of the Pope was raised for its victims. The life of our times was enriched by a voice speaking out about great moral truths above the tumult of daily conflict. We mourn a great servant of peace."

[khnyny]

I am so sorry for your Grandfather and your family. Your Grandfather was a very brave man.

My father was US Army Aircorp, stationed in England. Flew missions over Normandy. I've heard estimates that 75% of these Airmen were killed.

[winner3000]

That generation is amazing. I don't think most of the baby boom generation could be as hardy or as heroic. Their soul is weakened.

[Dqban22]

THANK YOU, THAT IS A VERY GOOD SITE. ANOTHER GOOD SITE IS

AT

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a39a2d2830ee5.htm

[Theoden]

Let me post this before the buck-toothed bubbas come in and claim otherwise...

Pope Pius XII secretly rescued many Jews from the Nazis, while safeguarding the lives of many Catholics and other Christians at the same time by not being "in Hitler's face". The Vatican was in a tight spot, especially after the Germans invaded fascist Italy, and since Rome was occupied by the Axis powers. Any open dissent would have led to the swift persecution of Catholics (already going on to a lesser degree) and the possible looting and destruction of the Vatican itself.

Since the Church has no standing army, it did what it could for the Jews, when it could, and to think otherwise is simply wrong. A Jewish Rabbi recently debunked a lot of the fallacious myths about the Catholic Church and Pope Pius XII during WWII in his book.

[wideawake]

That "buck-toothed bubbas" comment was out of line. And that is an excellent book.

[Upbeat]

Who are the "buck-toothed bubbas"? Pleaes explain.

[ArrogantBustard]

There's a good chance you'll find out ... although the worst of those who deny the Church's heroic resistance to the National Socialists really aren't ignorant rubes ... they're highly educated communists.

They're still wrong, but they're quite glib about it.

[khnyny]

"That generation is amazing. I don't think most of the baby boom generation could be as hardy or as heroic. Their soul is weakened."

You may be right, but then again, the baby boom generation wasn't shaped in quite the same ways (depression, WWII and also culturally a stronger sense of faith). Sometimes adversity brings out character and strength.

[Theoden]

I agree, I do tend to stray out of line from time to time, but it's not like the source of my frustration is a secret. It's been proven time and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and continues in perpetuity.(I probably should have written it in Latin)

Disclaimer;

My comment can mean anything you want it to mean, and whatever you think it means, you are probably right. My apologies to the good ones, this does not apply to you, only to the usual suspects. I will say no more.

[Theoden]

My comment refers to those ignorant/uneducated/stupid/hateful people who constantly come onto these types of threads and make outrageous claims and comments about things that they know nothing about, and of which they care nothing to learn. All they do is troll and start flame wars, and it is very frustrating and hurtful, and being an imperfect human, I am liable to get angry from time to time with them. There is no one specific group that fits that comment, it is about individuals, and nothing more. I was simply being preemptive, but wideawake is right, I am out of line, and I do regret posting it. I was in a bad mood before.

[Upbeat]

Thanks for the clarification.

[JRochelle]

One on my all-time favorite books is The Hiding Place by Corrie Ten Boon.

A simple family of watchmakers in Holland, and their efforts to hide Jews and their eventual capture by the Nazis. They all ended up in concentration camps and most of them died.
Excellant read.

[TradicalRC]

I was simply being preemptive, but wideawake is right, I am out of line, and I do regret posting it. I was in a bad mood before.

I am glad to hear it. I understand why you may feel the need for a preemptive strike, but when it comes to debate, always let your enemies show their hand first. BTW, you have mail.

[Dqban22]

NEW STUDIES DOCUMENT PIUS XII'S OPPOSITION TO NAZISM

Culture/Society News Keywords: HOLOCAUST, ANTI-CATHOLICISM
Source: EWTN

Published: 15 March 2000 Author: Zenit News Agency
Posted on 03/18/2000 07:29:39 PST by big'ol_freeper
15-Mar-2000 -- ZENIT News Agency

NEW STUDIES DOCUMENT PIUS XII'S OPPOSITION TO NAZISM
Revelations of Russian Historian Evghenija Tokareva
ROME, (ZENIT.org).- Following the Pope's Universal Prayer for Forgiveness (March 12), the media has given space to the opinion of persons who criticize the Church's role during the Holocaust of the Jews, carried out during the Second World War. Specifically, critics point to Pius XII, and his alleged silence on the tragedy. However, every day new proofs appear of the impressive action organized by this Pope to rescue the greatest number of Jews persecuted by the Third Reich.

In this regard, one of the latest historical testimonies is that of Russian historian Evghenija Tokareva. In a book entitled "Fascism, the Church, and the Catholic Movement in Italy: 1922-1943," published by the Institute of World History of the Russian Academy for Sciences, the author states that Pius XII's attitude toward Nazism "was dictated by prudence" and assures that "the Vatican was not subject to an anti-Jewish policy."

This is the first Russian monograph dedicated to the topic. The author is a young historian who is already famous for other studies, outstanding among which is a recent essay on Christian Churches and Totalitarianism, which appeared in a volume including several collaborators and entitled, "Totalitarianism in 20th Century Europe," also published by the Russian Academy of Sciences.


Tokareva, who is very familiar with the tragic experience of the Russian Orthodox Church, which was subjected to another type of totalitarianism, analyzes the actions of the Catholic Church in Italy during the fascist era with a critical spirit and extensive documentation. He pays special attention to the "Catholic subculture" and the role it played in the fall of that dictatorship.

In his conclusion, Tokareva writes: "It must be acknowledged that fascism did not succeed in subjecting the Church, nor was it able to integrate it in its political system." This is due to the establishment, independence and strength of the Church and its organizations and to the limitations "at the juridical and ideological levels that the totalitarianism of the fascist State was experiencing."

Tokareva thoroughly analyzes the Church's opposition to anti-Semitism, and reveals that fascism attempted to sow confusion by stating that its origins were in Christianity itself. In regard to Pius XII's attitude, who chose to stimulate effective aid to the Jews rather than make verbal pronouncements, Tokareva believes that it was a prudent decision, because by so doing he avoided vengeance that could have affected Catholics and the Jews themselves, which is exactly what happened in the Netherlands. When the Dutch Bishops criticized the Nazis, the persecution extended to include Jewish converts. Edith Stein was martyred as a direct result of that decision.

The Russian historian refers to the Pope's prudence not only as characterizing his relations with Nazism, but also with the Soviet Union, another regime responsible for horrific massacres. When Goebbels silenced Vatican Radio transmissions in 1941, he said they were "more dangerous for us than those of the communists themselves," Tokareva added, to emphasize her thesis.