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Posted on 07/19/2006 10:40:38 AM PDT by Youngstown
HUH?? How is it engaging in vile impugnations of Masons to say that some of our forefathers were Deists! Did I say all Masons were Deists? You need to read my posts more carefully.
It is revisionist history to say some of them weren't Deists and I don't care how many people on FR say otherwise.
Looks like the Bible that gets used in Catholic services.
I never said Bill Clinton was a Mason, but he was in the Order of DeMolay.
LOL! I take it you haven't been to a Catholic Mass. We don't have Masonic emblems on our Bibles.
I did, however, ping the Admin Mod. who has chosen to ignore it, because of last night's postings by him/her.
You are making all kinds of excuses for those on your side, including yourself, who not only began all of this, but who have said far worse things than what you have chosen to say that my side has said. That timber warehouse, in your eye, is so much larger than any mote you might find in mine; n00b.
So it's a Bible plus a Masonic guide. Somehow I fail to sense the menace it allegedly presents. Does it render Scripture incorrectly? Or is the Bible part completely correct, and you just have your panties in a bunch because the word "Mason" is in there?
I've been here a long time and will be here long after you're gone. ;^)
It's not totally separate . . . DeMolay is a training ground for Masons as Rainbow Girls are for Eastern Star.
OTOH, I think that HE would find the hypocrisy and bearing of false witness, by so many on your side, to be not just appalling, but sinful.
Perhaps in the Blue Lodge setting, but that ain't the tip of the iceberg.
Also, there is huge difference between American Freemasonry and that practiced in Latin countries such as Spain, France, Italy or Latin America. Every violent attack against the Catholic Church in those countries since the 1780s when the Austrian Emperor Joseph II, a Masonic sympathizer began numerous petty persecutions against observant Catholics.
Even if the Masonic organizations themselves have not immediately controlled the anticlerical movements of the past almost 300 years, their ideas have.
Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite cost my ancestor his head and those of 1,000's of other Catholic Frenchmen and women, whose only crime was their faith.
Perhaps in the Blue Lodge setting, but that ain't the tip of the iceberg.
Also, there is huge difference between American Freemasonry and that practiced in Latin countries such as Spain, France, Italy or Latin America. Every violent attack against the Catholic Church in those countries since the 1780s when the Austrian Emperor Joseph II, a Masonic sympathizer began numerous petty persecutions against observant Catholics.
Even if the Masonic organizations themselves have not immediately controlled the anticlerical movements of the past almost 300 years, their ideas have.
The Masonically influenced cry of Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite cost my ancestor his head and those of 1,000's of other Catholic Frenchmen and women, whose only crime was their faith.
Is that suppose to make me scared? I'm not!
The reason why the Roman Catholic Church "bulled" against the Masons are simply that they could not, like so much else, control the Masons.
In the 1500's, there were orgies in the Vatican, 18 year old Cardinals, purchased indulgences, etc, and yet we are judged to be bad guys. In his well documented book A WORLD LIT ONLY BY FIRE:
William Manchester, a noted historian brought the true light to what is supposed to be the infalibility of "man"
Am glad that we have a network of Masons to rebut, but it is terrible to witness these attacks when we are undergoing the war of wars with the Islam terrorists.
To call yourself "active in" something in a puff piece like those, all you need to do is pay the dues or whatever. What you and I think of as active participation is not required.
Try again, though. At least you're trying, and that's a good start.
Watch your language young lady, you are in the Religion Forum right now and you have used language in a previous post that is prohibted here. FYI, I don't wear panties because I'm a man.
Yeah, I have a problem with the Masonic Bible. I think it says some things in it that aren't kosher so to speak. I've posted them before in another thread and would have to drag it down off a shelf and type it all out by hand again, which I'm not in the mood. If you're interested, hunt through my post history and find it.
Well, I have actually been to a Catholic Mass, and I couldn't discern one shred of difference between the Scripture I heard there and the same verses read at home in my Bible that has the Rainbow insignia on it.
Which thread would that have been on? I do have to work in the morning.
It's already been posted here tonight.
That article is by the Masons, so tell us again that it doesn't promote religious indifferentism.
Perhaps, your Masonic conspiracy to get me kicked off FR should say something about your character. Or should I say, "Haven't I struck a nerve here?"
I have spent my entire life studying history, and it's a shame you believe all of the Masonic lies an propaganda.
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view.php/10385
"As professors in Mexico with research interests in Freemasonry, we are presented with peculiar but interesting problems. Freemasonry in Mexico is very secret indeed. Its public image is not what it may enjoy in small town America where the Rainbow Girls put on a pancake breakfast or the local Shrine club has a joint meeting with the Knights of Columbus. In Latin America, Freemasonry is extremely political, often virulently anticlerical, and controversial. So gathering its documents and translating them can be akin to rummaging through the CIA dustbins in Langley, Virginia.
The linking of the Revolution to Masonry, such as in the De Los Rios speech, is commonplace in Masonic orations and raises the question as to what the function of Freemasonry has been in Mexico. Without presenting a meticulous analysis, it can be noted that Mexican Masonry from the Revolution until now is, whatever else it might be, a political pressure group. Its depiction by De Los Rios as a white path, i.e., an unsullied road to spiritual fulfillment, is misleading.
Indeed, during the Reform and early Independence stages of Mexican history, the different Masonic rites were in effect political parties (Escoseces and Yorkinos). But by the time of the Revolution, the lodges were not parties but lobbies. De Los Rios argues that Masonry made the Revolution. This is a tough proposition to prove. What can certainly be said is that the institution had an active role within the Revolution.
There is not much evidence that the Masonic path was consistently one of kindness and disinterestedness. President Madero is a case in point. He was an active brother.(4) He belonged to Loyal Lodge Number 15. His great mistake when he became President after Díaz went into exile was to rely on fellow Masons whose sympathies were far less with reform than with the old regime. These disloyal brothers(5), despite all the Masonic oaths which supposedly bound them to help a brother, stimulated his opposition and the conspiracies against him. In 1913 he was murdered, possibly with the contrivance of fellow Masons.
After the defeat and exile of the dictator in the 1910 revolution, a succession of Presidents who were Masons and strongly anticlerical ruled the country under the 1917 Constitution that maintained substantially the same liberal principles of 1857. In the late 1920's a new crisis arose with the Church when it publicly repudiated the Constitution. In retaliation, the government attempted to fully enforce the anticlerical measures of the Constitution. A bloody rebellion arose in central Mexico by bands of Catholic sympathizers, known as Cristeros, often led by gun-toting priests, until a negotiated peace was eventually arranged with the Church.
These two great crises of Church and state, the Reform War of the 1850's and Cristero Rebellion of the late 1920's left a profound imprint on the national consciousness. They are the root of the strongly anticlerical position of many Mexican Freemasons that sometimes puzzles their brethren from other countries.
Recent presidents of Mexico have not been Masons, but a number of the Grand Lodges are and, the Supreme Council of the Scottish Rite are closely identified with the ruling party "Partido Revolucionario Institucional" (PRI). Moreover, in individual states, from time to time the governor or ruling clique has given the Masons money for new temples, youth work, and even as honorariums to Lodge officers. In many Mexican states there are competing Grand Lodges, some of which base their legitimacy on not being identified with politics or women Lodges.
When we look back in time, and realize that from the very start Mexican Masonry was split into competing groups, based on political allegiances, and that presidents of Mexico used Masonry to strengthen their political position, we can understand a little better just why Mexican Masonry has gone down the road that it has. As for its anti clericalism, the wealth and power of the Church meant that it was much more feared than in the United States.
I say all this not to excuse the situation, but to help explain the situation. In past years the bottom line was that Mexican Masonry appeared in most cases to be irregular in comparison with American Masonry. Some even accused Mexican Masons of "never really understanding Freemasonry" and of "possessing Latin minds incapable of grasping Freemasonry". However, I would like to close with some thoughts about that.
When people, particularly profanes, speak of "Masonry" in general terms, they have not idea of the concept of regularity. There is a great number o spurious bodies, large and small. Some of them are totally self-generated, like the feminine Grand Lodges. Others are created by dissidents from regular Grand Lodges, often using the same name to add to the confusion. A typical example would be a losing candidate for Grand Master who does not accept his defeat and takes his followers away with him to start a new Grand Lodge. These irregular bodies are the ones that make the most noise with political, usually radical, declarations in the media, and their public presence is out of proportion to their numbers in terms of membership. Quite obviously, none of them have a charter from a regular Grand Lodge.
The regular Grand Lodges, on the contrary, contain mostly brethren who sincerely believe in the principles of regular Masonry, but have the habit of thinking largely in political terms due to the political forces I have outlined above. Although it has its share of self-serving politicians like so many human organizations, Mexican Masonry, for all its sins, is not a hopeless case.
http://www.yorkrite.com/gcmx/os1999.html
Brothers, thank you very much.
OSCAR J. SALINAS E.
Senior Grand Warden-York/Mexico
Tucson, Arizona. September 10, 1999.
AHHH, I love Masonic tolerance and love. It's so enlightening.
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