For most of its history, America was anti-Catholic. Even well into the middle of the 20th century and JFK's presidential run, the anti-Catholic bigotry was rampant. I am not condoning this; just stating a factual historical point. The reason for that, is that you are making broad assertions about Freemasonry, which are not true. Masonry would and DID accept Catholics into the Craft, bearing NO animosity towards Roman Catholics, even though the Catholic church bore extreme and unfounded animus against it.
It was Protestant, all over this country, who, for more than a century, did everything they could do, to prevent Catholics from starting parochial schools. And to also prevent any kind of public funding for such things as school buses. There WERE quotas for Catholics, as there were for Jews, at ALL Ivy League colleges. William F. Buckley even wrote about about this, in his first book.
I'm glad that your friend gave you information and books which allowed you to see that what sometimes gets posted to such threads, as "fact", isn't. Thank you for posting that.
And yes, many weirdo groups, both in the past and today, have called themselves Masons or some kind of Masons, when, in fact, they weren't and had NO connection, whatsoever, to/with Freemasonry.
Freemasonry is NOT a religion. But it actually DOES have head officers and a Grand Lodge that oversees smaller ones inside each state. And yes, they DO condemn the non-Masonic organizations, that call themselves some sort of a Masonic group.
AFAIK, ALL of American Freemasonry have the same rites and orders. And the same is true in England.
The fact is, that many Catholics have been Masons; both in America and in Europe. Various Popes have, at different times, ignored Masonry, condemned one or two of the lodges, condemned ALL of Freemasonry, and didn't think that there was anything wrong with it. Pick a time period and you'll get a different Papal assessment of it, until somewhat recently.
If your religious beliefs preclude you from joining, that's understandable. What is neither understandable nor acceptable, is the sometimes vituperate, uncalled for, spurious slander, libel, and tinfoil covered replies, made by the anti-Masons to FR.
Dear nopardons,
I don't know why you're shouting at me. I didn't say that Masonry IS a religion. Yet, it endeavors to instruct about religious questions. It bases its instruction on what Catholics call natural revelation. I understand why it excludes Divine revelation - then it would become sectarian. Whose "divine revelation" would it use?
However, the exclusive reliance on natural revelation is a problem for the Catholic Church, and not unfairly so.
"The reason for that, is that you are making broad assertions about Freemasonry, which are not true."
Certainly they're true. If you want to deny history, go ahead, but Masonry was instrumental in creating support for anti-Catholic Blaine amendments, among other things.
Now, I allowed in my previous post that this was likely in part that anti-Catholic bigotry was widespread at the time, and the Masons in the US were typically just a bunch of good ol' Protestant fellas who happened to hate Catholics just as much as their non-Masonic neighbors.
Nonetheless, Masonic organizations were used to do very anti-Catholic things.
"Masonry would and DID accept Catholics into the Craft, bearing NO animosity towards Roman Catholics, even though the Catholic church bore extreme and unfounded animus against it."
Ah, you can't have it both ways, talking about the general anti-Catholic bigotry and trying to portray Masonry as some Catholic-welcoming organization.
"The fact is, that many Catholics have been Masons;..."
Well, if you accept the notion that the Catholic Church may define its own terms for membership, actually, many former Catholics have been Masons, as, according to Church law, to become a Mason is to cease to be a Catholic.
"Various Popes have, at different times, ignored Masonry, condemned one or two of the lodges, condemned ALL of Freemasonry, and didn't think that there was anything wrong with it."
You may not understand how the Magisterial authority of the Catholic Church works. That one pope condemns and another makes no mention does not mean that the condemnation is lifted, only that the next felt no need to reiterate what was already clearly taught.
"If your religious beliefs preclude you from joining, that's understandable."
It is the teaching of the Catholic Church that makes it impossible for Catholics to join the Masons. As a devout Catholic, I obey the authoritative teachings of the Church.
"What is neither understandable nor acceptable, is the sometimes vituperate, uncalled for, spurious slander, libel, and tinfoil covered replies, made by the anti-Masons to FR."
I agree, and I think some of the stuff said here goes too far. Nonetheless, I have two problems with the Masons here, and generally:
1. The denial of anti-Catholicism on the part of many Masonic organizations. Nopardons, I'm happy to concede that not every Lodge, not every grouping of Masons has been anti-Catholic over the course of history, and I'm happy to recognize diversity in Masonry.
But to deny that many Masonic organizations have, at least at different times, engaged in anti-Catholic bigotry is a denial of history. You may desire the caveat of, "Well, EVERYONE in that place and time was anti-Catholic, why would you expect the Masons to behave differently?"
And I'll give you a point on that.
Nevertheless, these organizations DID engage in anti-Catholic actions.
2. I despise when Masons tell me how many Catholics they know who are Masons. You know ABSOLUTELY NO CATHOLICS who are Masons, because from the moment they took their first Masonic degree, they ceased to be practicing Catholics. Plain and simple. They may still go to the Catholic Church, the priest may still give them communion (either unwittingly, or wittingly, and thus themselves in grave sin for offering the Blessed Sacrament to a Mason), but ontologically, they are no longer practicing Catholics.
That is the law of the Church, and the Church has the right to define its own terms of membership.
sitetest