Scholars: Heaven, hell, meaningless to most Americans

Vivificat! - A Catholic Blog of Commentary and Opinion ^ | 29 July 2006 | Teófilo

[Teófilo]

Blunders. Typos. Mine.

[Teófilo]

PING!

[InvisibleChurch]

Scholars: Heaven, hell, meaningless to most Americans

Well, I think that's usually the case until it's too late.

[GSlob]

"...then what's the best way to think of heaven?"
Elysium, n. An imaginary delightful country which the ancients foolishly believed to be inhabited by the spirits of the good. This ridiculous and mischievous fable was swept from the face of the earth by the early Christians - may their souls be happy in Heaven!
Ambrose Bierce

[tessalu]

Most churches today do not even believe in the ten commandments. So what else is new?

[tessalu]

What is sin, anyway? It is the trangression of the law.

[Gamecock]

***Foggy notions of Heaven and Hell--and Purgatory--are not exclusive of Protestant fuzzy thinking.***

The god* of most Americans is a somewhat senile grandfather who likes to hand out gifts and sees sin as more of a mistake than an affront to his holiness. There is no room for the God of Abraham, Jacob, and Issac in the church of easy believism.

*That's right, with a little g.

[GSlob]

'What is sin, anyway? It is the trangression of the law."
It could be the feeling of regret at the opportunuity missed...

[GSlob]

opportunuity=opportunity. Adjacent keys.

[Uri’el-2012]

Those responsible for preaching must renew their preaching
by drinking in the waters of the original proclamation of the Apostles.
Only then will we be able to rescue the sense of our sinfulness and with it,
the right understanding of the realities of Death, Heaven, Hell, and Purgatory.

I would amend that from "the Apostles" to Y'shua
( YHvH is our salvation) and following G-d's Law as Y'shua us commanded in

John 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

b'shem Y'shua

[Teófilo]

First, recurring to Hebrew expressions to justify doctrinal positions does not necessarily lead to authentic statements of Christian belief. There's no need to Hebraize everything to make a doctrinal point. Regarding the appeal to "the Apostles," these quotes are also relevant:

"Before we go much further, let us define what is meant by khrugma. Kerygma is a Greek noun meaning a “message” or a “proclamation.” Attic Greek used the word especially in relation to “a herald or public crier” and that it implies a carrier of the message – the Apostles in the case of the New Testament[1]. It is public in nature; Pershbacher uses the phrases “public annunciation” and “public inculcation” in his definition. Arndt & Gingrich underscore the aspect of preaching, and this is in accordance with English translations of the Bible: the KJV, NAS, and NIV render kerygma as “preaching” 83% of the time. Although kerygma means generically a proclamation of any sort, in the New Testament it is always used to describe the Gospel. (Source, emphasis mine)

Also,

Paul himself at least believed that in essentials his Gospel was that of the primitive apostles; for although in Gal. i. ii-i8 he states with emphasis that he did not derive it from any human source, nevertheless in the same epistle (ii. z) he says that he submitted "the Gospel which I preach" to Peter, James and John at Jerusalem, and that they gave their approval. Not only so, but in the locus classicus, i Cor. xv. i sqq., he expressly declares that this summary of the Gospel is what he had "received" as tradition; and after referring to other witnesses to the facts, including Peter, James, and "all the apostles," he adds with emphasis, "Whether I or they, it was thus that we preached, and thus that you believed." (Source)

Thus, the reference to "the Apostles" is completely consistent with the New Testament. It is always understood that the Good News originated from Jesus. The authors of the New Testament granted their audience that much common sense. The New Testament was not written to justify the Good News of Jesus, but to proclaim them, and to demonstrate the authority of the Apostles and their successors to preach them.

-Theo

[Tax-chick]

I love Ambrose Bierce; he's one of the most underappreciated American writers of the last 150 years.

[Uri’el-2012]

Thus, the reference to "the Apostles" is completely consistent with the New Testament. It is always understood that the Good News originated from Jesus. The authors of the New Testament granted their audience that much common sense. The New Testament was not written to justify the Good News of Jesus, but to proclaim them, and to demonstrate the authority of the Apostles and their successors to preach them.

1 Corinthians 1:22 Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom,

1 Corinthians 1:23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling-block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,

1 Corinthians 1:24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

1 Corinthians 1:25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than man’s wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man’s strength.

b'shem Y'shua

[Diego1618]

'What is sin, anyway? It is the transgression of the law." It could be the feeling of regret at the opportunity missed...

Nope, tessalu is correct.... 1 John 3:4

[GSlob]

As the song went, "don't bible at me, don't bible at me..."

[siunevada]

"don't bible at me, don't bible at me..."

"Captain, to engage in discussion with the inhabitants of the FR Religion Forum and not expect to be bible'd would be - illogical."

[GSlob]

Why, from Bacchus worshipers one would hope to get a few really good cocktail recipes!

[Tax-chick]

from Bacchus worshippers

Dionysius say, "Buy and hold Australian varietal reds."

[GSlob]

Another repartee to the biblers, dating from [and based upon] Yaroslav Hasek, goes along the lines: "I'm afraid you have a mania developing. In a hospital you'll pretend to be Sts. Cyril and Methodius [variant: Cosmas and Damian] so as to get double dinner..."

[Tax-chick]

That's cute, too! It's true one must expect Bible content on FR religion threads :=).