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The Pope of Rome and the Patriarch.
August 14, 2006 | Rampolla

Posted on 08/14/2006 11:20:26 AM PDT by Rampolla

There's an icon of the Pope of Rome and the Patricarch of Constantinople in a church in Greece.


TOPICS: Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: constantinople; icon; pope
I have been told that there is an icon in a church in Greece which shows the Pope of Rome and the Patriarch of Constantinople side by side. Evidently it dates before the schism and survived the iconoclasts. Does anybody know about this and can anyone post an image of this icon?
1 posted on 08/14/2006 11:20:27 AM PDT by Rampolla
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To: Rampolla
Are they arm-wrestling or what?

Sorry. Can't help it. Wouldn't it be a blessing if that schism were healed?

2 posted on 08/14/2006 11:51:55 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Reality is not optional.)
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To: Mad Dawg

depends on the circumstances.


3 posted on 08/14/2006 12:03:44 PM PDT by kawaii
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To: Mad Dawg

Yes, it certainly would be a blessing.


4 posted on 08/14/2006 12:07:40 PM PDT by Rampolla
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To: Mad Dawg

The schism was, in theory healed in 1453, but still, no aid got to Constantinopolos in time to stop the Turks.


5 posted on 08/14/2006 12:13:32 PM PDT by donmeaker (If the sky don't say "Surrender Dorothy" then my ex wife is out of town.)
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To: kawaii

Well, "healed", not "scabbed over".


6 posted on 08/14/2006 12:14:41 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Reality is not optional.)
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To: donmeaker

It was not even remotely near to healing. It was to be ratified by the Synod of Greek Bishops but never was.


7 posted on 08/14/2006 12:17:13 PM PDT by kawaii
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To: Rampolla

I'm curious which Pope of Rome, and which Patriarch of Constantinople. Icons don't depict offices, they depict Our Lord, His Mother, and His friends, the saints.

Plenty of Popes of Rome are saints of the Orthodox Church, for instance St. Gregory the Dialogist (called St. Gregory the Great in the West). We still use his Divine Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts during Great Lent, while the Latins don't.

I have seen, for instance, an icon of 'the Liturgists' with a Pope of Rome (St. Gregory the Dialogist), a Patriarch of Constantinople (St. John Chrysostom) and a Bishop of Caesarea (St. Basil the Great), being the three saints whose liturgies have been in more-or-less constant use in the Orthodox Church for the past, oh, millenium and a half.

Incidentally, almost all of the icons we have are post-iconoclast, with the exception of a few preserved at St. Catherine's Monastary in Sinai, though on Mt. Athos, there is a bas-relief icon of the Theotokos 'written' in carved mastic by St. Luke the Evangelist, *from life*--tradition holds that the Virgin Mary sat for the icon to be done as a portait! (I've forgotten which monastery has it).


8 posted on 08/14/2006 1:08:29 PM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: donmeaker

There was a reconciliation in the 11th century when Constantinople appealed to the west for aid against the Turks. Pope Urban II saw it as an opportunity to heal the schism and called for the First Crusade in 1096. The Crusader army that defeated the Turks and captured Jerusalem was complrised of thee basic nationalities: Greeks, Franks (from Germany and France) and Vikings (from Normandy, England, Denmark and Viking held Sicily).


9 posted on 08/14/2006 1:42:12 PM PDT by bobjam
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To: The_Reader_David

Thank you for your reply. I wish I had more information. I presume the Pope of Rome and the Patriarch would be saints. Perhaps Pope Gregory and St. Germanus? I am working from an e-mail of a priest-friend of mine who said he remembered an icon in Greece with a Pope of Rome and a Patriarch of Constantinople side by side. Is there an image of the icon you mention on the web?


10 posted on 08/14/2006 1:59:11 PM PDT by Rampolla
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To: Rampolla

Very interesting screen name.

What would you say if I said Giuseppe Sarto?


11 posted on 08/14/2006 2:11:41 PM PDT by Theophane
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To: The_Reader_David

I found the icon of the Liturgists. Thank you.


12 posted on 08/14/2006 2:14:58 PM PDT by Rampolla
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To: Theophane

Easy. Pope St.Pius X. If am not mistaken the Austrian veto was raised in the conclave to prevent the election of Rampolla.


13 posted on 08/14/2006 2:16:29 PM PDT by Rampolla
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To: The_Reader_David

I have some more information: This is a specific icon written on the wall of a church in Greece depicting two contemporary saints, one the pope and the other the partriarch of Constantinople, both being in office at the same time.


14 posted on 08/14/2006 3:40:05 PM PDT by Rampolla
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To: Rampolla

Right you are, mate!

Interestingly, I read somewhere that the veto, which must have been particularly galling to Italians coming from Austria, was delivered by the cardinal archbishop of Crakow. It was, of course, the last such as St Pius X suppressed the practice soon after his election.


15 posted on 08/14/2006 9:00:04 PM PDT by Theophane
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To: Rampolla

Wouldn't be one of St Andrew and St Peter would it.

They both appear in the Last Supper.

Since St Andrew was the brother of St Peter and St Andrew is considered the 1st Patriarch of Constantinople and St Peter the 1st Bishop of Rome could this be what you're looking for?

You can find an icon of Paul, Peter, and Andrew at http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/catherines2-32.htm.

I'm sure a further search will find them together when St Andrew found St Peter near the boat and told him of the Lord.


16 posted on 08/16/2006 11:26:11 AM PDT by AMHN (Book Survey: Which is greater "Truth" or "Love"? FReepmail a reply)
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To: Rampolla

Another icon of St Peter, St Andrew, and Christ in a boat

http://www.printeryhouse.org/mall/Icons/Discipleship/a04.asp


17 posted on 08/16/2006 11:33:52 AM PDT by AMHN (Book Survey: Which is greater "Truth" or "Love"? FReepmail a reply)
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