[Conservative til I die]

No matter WHAT you think, Freemasonry is not a religion; neither is it a cult.

I have asserted neither, sir. However, I have said there is a religious element to Freemasonry, something that other Masons and those sympathetic to Masons have indeed said. I have merely stated that a Catholic cannot be a Mason because whatever religious ideas put forth by Masons are not compatible with Catholicism.

As to whether one could be a Mason at one point and be a Catholic, I'd really have to check the history so you may indeed be right.

But if so, it doesn't change things, since the Church is not necessarily against membership in another club or group until it contradicts one's Catholicism.

[sitetest]

Dear Conservative til I die,

Masonry was started in 1717. The first papal bull of excommunication was promulgated in 1738.

However, as noted in another thread about Mozart's Masonic membership, in earlier times, without modern communications, a papal bull wasn't considered in effect in a specific diocese until formally promulgated in that diocese by its ordinary.

Thus, although the Church's condemnation of Masonry began a scant 20 years after its beginning, it was likely some time in the early 19th century before one might say that all, or nearly all Catholics were responsible for the teachings in this area.


sitetest

[nopardons]

The first Papal Bull against Freemasonry was written in 1738. Freemasonry is older than that and yes, Catholics were members.

King Louis XV of France refused to recognize the supremacy of the Pope, over what he felt was his venue and thus, ignored this Bull, for himself ( and no he was NEVER a Mason ) and his own subjects.

The second anti-Masonic Papal Bull was issued in 1751, by Pope Benedict XIV...at the urgings of the Kings of Spain and Naples. This Bull,as the first one, was political, even though it was couched in religious wording. Though Maria Theresia was ardently against the Masons and Jews, once her son, Joseph II, became Emperor, he rescinded all of her reactionary and cruel policies...which included the ones against the Masons. And yes, this was against the Papal Bulls, re the Masons.

Hayden was a Mason, as was Mozart, whom he convinced to be raised in the Masonic Lodge that he, "Papa" Hayden, was a member of. Many of that era's best Austrian musicians were Masons.

Many European Catholics were Masons, before and for centuries after the first Papal Bull was written and if you want me to, I'll list some famous names, which you would recognize.