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To: NYer

Is this all about kneeling during communion time? If it is, I am surprised. Canon 20 of the First Ecumenical Council banned kneeling on Sundays. This was reaffirmed by Canon 90 of the Council of Trullo which was held in conjunction with the Sixth Ecumenical Council. Seems to me the bishop is on pretty solid ground here, though if memory serves, communion was received kneeling during the Tridentine Mass, was it not?


9 posted on 09/15/2006 9:27:23 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis
communion was received kneeling during the Tridentine Mass, was it not?

It still is.

11 posted on 09/15/2006 9:28:58 AM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: Kolokotronis

Catholic forum......


13 posted on 09/15/2006 9:31:07 AM PDT by Cheverus
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To: Kolokotronis
Canon 20 of the First Ecumenical Council banned kneeling on Sundays. This was reaffirmed by Canon 90 of the Council of Trullo which was held in conjunction with the Sixth Ecumenical Council. Seems to me the bishop is on pretty solid ground here

Those canons have not been regarded as binding in the West for centuries, at least.

Trullo in particular was a purely local Eastern Council held decades after the actual sixth council and originally rejected by the Pope - he later confirmed the decrees, saving those parts which were derogatory to legitimate customs of the West (celibacy of priests, communion in the hand only, etc.)

As far as Nicaea I, this legislation was appropriate for its time but we hardly think that the Church must be bound by every disciplinary canon from the primitive ages. In the Tridentine Mass not only was Holy Communion generally received kneeling but in many places it was the custom to kneel throughout the whole of the Mass, or at least large portions.

The kneeling posture is that at present enjoined for the receiving of the sacraments, or at least confirmation, Holy Eucharist, penance and Holy orders. (Catholic Encyclopedia, s.v. "Kneeling and Genuflection")

18 posted on 09/15/2006 9:40:06 AM PDT by gbcdoj (Destruction is thy own, O Israel; thy help is only in Me.)
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To: Kolokotronis; murphE
Seems to me the bishop is on pretty solid ground here, though if memory serves, communion was received kneeling during the Tridentine Mass, was it not?

The Second Vatican Council set about restoring some of the more authentic practices from the early church. While I'm not sure at what point in time kneeling replaced standing in the Latin Church, it firmly embedded itself into the liturgy for 500+ years, and was / is viewed as a sign of reverence and respect. From the perspective of a devout Roman Catholic, Bishop Tod is asking them to be disrespectful.

25 posted on 09/15/2006 9:55:12 AM PDT by NYer ("That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah." Hillel)
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To: Kolokotronis

"This was reaffirmed by Canon 90 of the Council of Trullo which was held in conjunction with the Sixth Ecumenical Council."

The Catholic Church never recognized the Council in Trullo (i.e Quintasext) as ecumenical.


36 posted on 09/15/2006 10:26:14 AM PDT by Miles the Slasher
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To: Kolokotronis

Yes, communion was received kneeling at the Tridentine.

Point is that the kneeling tradition is customary (at least in the US, and to my knowledge parts of Germany) going back around 100 years.

That makes it an 'immemorial custom,' (100 years) and not subject to manipulation by snot-nosed Committee academics.


67 posted on 09/15/2006 2:08:50 PM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, Tomas Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: Kolokotronis

I respect the East in terms of liturgy, but as being someone who was brought up in a Western cultural context, I strongly prefer the Wests liturgical historty, and as much as Eastren Rite Catholics were abused by having Latinizations forced on them before Vatican II, many Catholics like me are sick of the Eastren influences such as standing for communion and the attempt to eliminate all kneeling during mass being forced on us.


74 posted on 09/15/2006 2:24:20 PM PDT by RFT1
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