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To: DouglasKC; kerryusama04; Diego1618; whipitgood; Buggman; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; jude24
The question has always been whether or not the sabbath was observed by Christians. The answer is of course it was.

You keep saying this, but yet you cannot point to any Scripture that shows baptized Christians, both Jews and gentiles, in a Christian worship setting on the last days sabbath of the Jews. The fact that Paul was able to find a place where people gathered on the old covenant sabbath to pray does not enjoin Christians to worship on the sabbath of the Jews. We have already shown it was Paul's custom to seek them out on their worship places in order to convert Jews to Christ.

It was also Paul's custom at one point to have his hair cut off to take a vow in order to not be falsely accused by the apostate Jews. Have you made this your custom as well? Should all Chrisians cut off their hair when they take a vow?

Nowhere do we see baptized gentiles observing new moons or annual feast days of the Jews.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law

Since you are so sure that Matt. 5:17,18 authorizes the keeping of the last day sabbath, and since none of your old covenant sabbatarian friends has chosen to answer my challenge, why don't you take a crack at this list:

Do you bring your grain offering to the local priest (Lev. 2:1)?

Do you bring your tresspass offering to the local priest (Lev. 5:6)?

Do you avoid temple worship when you have a "discharge" (Lev. 15:2)?

Do you get your tonsorial fashions approved by a priest or rabbi?

Do you have your sons circumcised by a rabbi?

Do your women bring a purification offering to the priest after bearing a child (Lev. 12:6)?

Do you bring your skin ailments to the priest for adjudication (Lev. 13:4)?

Do you bring cases of adultery to a preist to be tried by "bitter water" (Num. 5:19)?

Until you can honestly answer these questions about old covenant practices, your quote of Matthew 5 to support the old covenant sabbath rings hollow.

513 posted on 10/02/2006 6:47:25 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: topcat54; kerryusama04; Diego1618; whipitgood; Buggman; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; jude24
You keep saying this, but yet you cannot point to any Scripture that shows baptized Christians, both Jews and gentiles, in a Christian worship setting on the last days sabbath of the Jews.

First of all, you misrepresent scripture by saying that the sabbath is the "sabbath of the Jews". Holy scripture calls the sabbath the sabbath of God:

Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

Now you can continue to try and marginalize it by calling it what it is not, but like it or not (and you don't) it is a commandment of God.

By the way, do you believe it is a sin to violate any of the ten commandments?

The fact that Paul was able to find a place where people gathered on the old covenant sabbath to pray does not enjoin Christians to worship on the sabbath of the Jews.

Three points.

First, the sabbath gathered on in the new testament was the new covenant sabbath.

Second, as pointed out, it's God's sabbath, not the Jews.

Third, the scriptures that Paul reasoned out of, the word of God, clearly and specifically point out that the sabbath was to be observed by those who worship God. There is no question about it scripturally and there was no question about it in biblical times. God enjoins us, in the bible, to observe his sabbath. It's that simple.

As pointed out (and not addressed or refuted by you) there is not one hint or shred of controversy that shows that anyone in biblical times ever stopped observing God's sabbath. I can show you one of God's commandments to observe his sabbath in scripture. The onus is on you to produce one shred of biblical evidence that sabbath observance has been done away with or transferred to any other day.

We have already shown it was Paul's custom to seek them out on their worship places in order to convert Jews to Christ.

We've already seen that this is your theory to explain why Paul, gentiles, greeks and others were observing the sabbath and why it is so frequently mentioned.

And I've quoted you the words of Paul himself (something you clearly can't refute) that shows that he believed in the observance of the sabbath:

Act 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Since you are so sure that Matt. 5:17,18 authorizes the keeping of the last day sabbath, and since none of your old covenant sabbatarian friends has chosen to answer my challenge, why don't you take a crack at this list:

You know, reading your list of scripture, it just occurred to me that you don't know exactly what the "old covenant" consisted of. Let me show you the heart and soul of the old covenant:

Deu 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

You're misunderstanding of the covenants and how the Levitical priesthood relates to the old and new covenant is your major source of confusion. It's almost pointless to discuss it with you because you're apparently ignorant about many aspects and need to do some study. I would suggest starting with Mount Sinai and studying Exodus to see what God encompassed in his covenant with Israel. I would then study WHY he later added sacrifices and the Levitical priesthood. Finally, I would study Hebrews to see exactly how these relate to the new testament.

It will be challenging to you because you have a preconceived notion of what has changed between the new covenant and the old covenant that is not scriptural. You'll have to toss aside your suppositions and actually study the word.

I've got an extremely busy week coming up and will be out of town observing the feast of Tabernacles starting on Wednesday. I'll have broadband in my hotel room so I'll attempt to put together a post that may shed some light on the covenants of God.

Some resources:

Jesus' Teaching on God's Law

The Covenants...kind of lengthy, but well worth the study.

524 posted on 10/02/2006 4:07:46 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: topcat54; DouglasKC; Diego1618; whipitgood; Buggman; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; jude24
Since you are so sure that Matt. 5:17,18 authorizes the keeping of the last day sabbath, and since none of your old covenant sabbatarian friends has chosen to answer my challenge, why don't you take a crack at this list:

TC, we don't answer you because it just adds unnecessary volume to the thread. The answer has been posted so many times that I just figured you weren't going to read it anyhow.

Mar 14:58 "We heard Him say, 'I will destroy this temple made with hands, and in three days I will build another made without hands.'"

1Co 3:16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

Your incredibly non-linear leap from "no more temple" to "no more law" has me sitting here shaking my head in pity. Instead of being an S.A., I will ask straight forward. Is homosexuality a sin and why?

529 posted on 10/02/2006 8:20:05 PM PDT by kerryusama04 (Isa 8:20, Eze 22:26)
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