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To: Campion
Actually, there are, but if we tell you about them, you will tell us that they don't mean what we think they mean, which simply demonstrates that Scripture alone is not a sufficient guide to right doctrine, because as Scripture itself notes, the "ignorant and unstable" can twist it.

No actually the Bible teaches just the opposite. It is clear that Mary was not sinless. It is clear she did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit , It is clear that she did not understand the role of her son,

Unlike Enoch and Elijah there is not mention of this "miracle"

According to the RCC, Mary *completely* adhered to the Father's will, following *every* prompting of the Holy Spirit. She was the spiritual mother of us all *uninterruptedly*, from the annunciation onward. She was *always* in union with Jesus.

One wonders how such things could be true in light of the fact that Mary didn't even understand a simple statement Jesus made about His own identity after living with Mary for twelve years (Luke 2:49-50). Apparently, she was following *all* of the Father's will and *every* prompting of the Spirit, while she was the spiritual mother of all believers, yet, at the same time, she didn't even understand what Jesus said in Luke 2:49. She also was among the kinsmen who thought Jesus was insane (Mark 3:20-35), and she didn't honor Jesus as He should have been honored (Mark 6:3-4).

"Origen insisted that, like all human beings, she [Mary] needed redemption from her sins; in particular, he interpreted Simeon's prophecy (Luke 2, 35) that a sword would pierce her soul as confirming that she had been invaded with doubts when she saw her Son crucified." (J.N.D. Kelly, Early Christian Doctrines [San Francisco, California: HarperCollins Publishers, 1978], p. 493)

268 posted on 11/03/2006 12:40:19 PM PST by ears_to_hear ("I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see. ")
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To: ears_to_hear
It is clear that Mary was not sinless. It is clear she did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit

Really? Where are these "clear" scriptures? You mean Mary wasn't speaking under inspiration in Luke 1:48-55?

It is clear that she did not understand the role of her son

Not understanding something is a sin?

She also was among the kinsmen who thought Jesus was insane (Mark 3:20-35)

Being with a group of people who are confused is a sin?

and she didn't honor Jesus as He should have been honored (Mark 6:3-4)

Sorry, but actually know how to find Mark 6:3-4 in my Bible (which I have right here in my desk), and it says nothing like that.

I think you've established your mala fides as a false teacher with this post, thanks.

272 posted on 11/03/2006 12:48:28 PM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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