No matter what I come up with, you will find some new word or adjective to explain it away. This is what I mean with the word "maleable". This is also why the statements on sins like homosexuality by the pontiff are so incredibly long and in need of interpretation. The system is self propagating so that it can mean many things - thus "universal".
When was it deemed appropriate to sell indulgences? When was it deemed sacramental to confess one's sins to a clergyman? When was the sacrament of confirmation instituted? When was it decreed that the clergy be celibate? When was the first "holy day of obligation" kept? When was the first Easter? When was the first Christmas? When was it OK to bow and pray to a statue and when was it not? All of these things have a starting point long after the close of scripture. In the case of Sunday worship, we actually know when this apostasy was decreed because it took a civil law to enforce it. The indulgence sales have stopped. Are these dogmas, doctrines, rites of passage, dictates, ordinances, initiations, or shall I call them something else? Whatever they are, some Catholics practiced them and some have not. There have been many changes in your system of worship, of this there is no doubt.
Do you know the difference between extrinsic and intrinsic value? You keep asking questions about extrinsic value, as if you don't know about intrinsic value. Scripture is immensely valuable, because, as I already said, it is the "Word of God".
Adding adjectives to the word "value" does not define what value you ascribe to scripture. Since it was proven in my last post that the Catholic church willfully breaks a commandment of God, I can only deduce that scripture has no value to you.
You are viewing the three-fold authority (Magisterium, Scripture, Tradition) as if they are necessarily *hierarchically* related. But they are not hierarchically related. They are three equal authorities, but each in a different mode that complements the other two.
What is the deal with you and three co-equal brances? This is a religion thread with absolutes, not a constitutional thread. If you guys have no standard and just go with what the guy at the top says, then why don't you just say that?
I don't know that the *year* Mary ascended was "deemed".
In what year was it deemed by the chuch at Rome that Mary had ascended? At what point in history was it deemed appropriate, or even sacramental, for Mary to be prayed to? Did the apostles do this? Which ECF insituted this practice?
We know when this "apostasy" was decreed because we have the testimony of a man who himself knew the Apostles as personal friends, and who died the arena in AD 110, that Sunday worship was generally accepted Christian practice in his day.
We also have a number of other patristic sources which testify to Sunday worship, centuries before Constantine.
Christianity was illegal, you'll recall, before Constantine. There could be no civil law to enforce any aspect of Christian observance before Constantine, so the enactment of a civil law during his reign proves nothing about Christian practice before him.
That is an ad hominem.
This is what I mean with the word "maleable".
Oh, ok. I thought you meant that the dogmas of the Church change. If you only meant that you can't refute Catholic theology, than I don't disagree.
This is also why the statements on sins like homosexuality by the pontiff are so incredibly long and in need of interpretation. The system is self propagating so that it can mean many things - thus "universal".
That's not true. The statements are the length they are in order to be thorough and careful, not to mean anything to anybody.
When was it deemed appropriate to sell indulgences?
If I'm understanding the sense of your use of "deemed", then the answer is never; the selling of indulgences was never a dogma of the Church.
When was it deemed sacramental to confess one's sins to a clergyman?
That was taught by the Apostles.
When was it decreed that the clergy be celibate?
At the First Council of Nicea.
When was the first "holy day of obligation" kept?
Probably on the Easter the year after Jesus rose from the dead.
When was the first Christmas?
The first Christmas was the day Jesus was born. But surely Christmas was celebrated every year thereafter by Mary and Joseph, until their deaths.
When was it OK to bow and pray to a statue and when was it not?
Never. Catholics don't pray to statues.
All of these things have a starting point long after the close of scripture.
The Church is a living organism. It grows not only in size, but in understanding. The Church is not a static, dead, frozen object. As she grows in her understanding, she clarifies and brings forth new understanding of received doctrine. The bishops have the authority to set forth further dogma, but never to remove existing dogma. But certain practices are not dogma. And these can be added or removed at the behest of the bishops.
There have been many changes in your system of worship, of this there is no doubt.
Many changes, but also much continuity.
Since it was proven in my last post that the Catholic church willfully breaks a commandment of God, I can only deduce that scripture has no value to you.
I missed where you *proved" that. Jesus, being God, instituted a New Covenant. The New Covenant supercedes the Old Covenant. Saturday worship was superceded in the New Covenant, and transformed into Sunday worship. Superceding a command is not equivalent to "breaking" a command.
What is the deal with you and three co-equal brances? This is a religion thread with absolutes, not a constitutional thread. If you guys have no standard and just go with what the guy at the top says, then why don't you just say that?
Sorry to disappoint you, but I will only say what I believe to be true. They are three equal authorities, but each in a different mode that complements the other two.
In what year was it deemed by the chuch at Rome that Mary had ascended?
From what I remember, the church at Rome learned of this from the bishop of Jerusalem in the fourth or fifth century. I'd have to look it up.
At what point in history was it deemed appropriate, or even sacramental, for Mary to be prayed to?
I'm not sure what you mean by "sacramental" here. Praying to Mary has never been one of the seven sacraments. It has been deemed appropriate to pray to Mary since as early in Mary's childhood as she could understand prayer requests.
Did the apostles do this?
I don't know.
Which ECF insituted this practice?
From what I understand, the practice preceded any formal "institution" of the practice.
-A8