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To: adiaireton8
We believe that "In the most blessed sacrament of the Eucharist "the body and blood, together with the soul and divinity, of our Lord Jesus Christ and, therefore, the whole Christ is truly, really, and substantially contained." (Catechism, #1374)

But the mode of His presence in the Eucharist is not identical to the mode of His presence in the Second Coming. Now we see Him in the Eucharist, but veiled with the accidents of bread and wine. Then (in the Second Coming), we shall see Him as He is.

So he has come secretly disguised as bread and wine onto Catholic altars. Whether disguised or not, that is still a coming thousands of times a day. Jesus came to Israel and many there did not recognize Him, but it was still a coming to them, recognized or not. According to Catholic teaching Jesus has come not just a second time but millions of times, howbeit disguised as bread and wine.

Perhaps the words of Jesus in Matthew 24:26-27 are instructive here: "Wherefore if they shall say unto you . . . behold he is in the secret chambers, believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east and shineth even unto the west, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

Catholic churches do keep those consecrated wafers under lock and key in the "tabernacles" on their altars still , don't they? Jesus said that if they say He is in those wafers under lock and key, DON'T BELIEVE THEM.

40 posted on 11/23/2006 9:57:38 AM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: Uncle Chip
Perhaps the words of Jesus in Matthew 24:26-27 are instructive here: "Wherefore if they shall say unto you . . . behold he is in the secret chambers, believe it not.

The words of Jesus are always instructive, but not for those who only twist them to suit their purposes.

-A8

42 posted on 11/23/2006 10:25:49 AM PST by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: Uncle Chip
I think if you look over the thread you'll see that those arguing FOR Real Presence have already asserted, and more than once, that the notion of repetition is not part of what we think happens in or with the Blessed Sacrament.

Even after we say that many times you say:
Whether disguised or not, that is still a coming thousands of times a day.
According to Catholic teaching Jesus has come not just a second time but millions of times, howbeit disguised as bread and wine.

So, I say again, no, we do not hold that he comes thousands or millions of times. Imagine two pieces of cloth lying on top of each other, one the created and temporal world, the other eternity. Through the sacramental act God shoves a thread of the eternal world up into the temporal world. It's still eternal but, well, also here it is. God's eternality and omnipresence was not stopped by the Incarnation. The once-for-all sacrifice is not repeated. It is eternal, but, well, from the Oaks of Mamre and before and up to the present time, the eternal has a way of leaking into the temporal, and we hold that God, as a great gift given by the Son, promises that such leaking happens (to our great benefit, succour, comfort, and encouragement) in the Sacrament.

This is not meant to be persuasive or agumentative. I'm trying just to articulate the idea, not to sell it.

Is there something unclear about this that I could say in a more helpful way?

43 posted on 11/23/2006 10:29:05 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Now we are all Massoud)
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