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To: Ping-Pong
Satan, at one time, was an obedient angel of God but he rebelled. He is not allegory for anything. He is very real.

Judaism did not and does not consider the satan as a fallen angel, but a loyal servant of God. Please read up on Jewish understanding of this subject. Google Jewish Encyclopedia Satan. It's a good start. In short, Judaism does not allow for an angelic rebellion. When Genesis was written, satan was not a fallen angel. If he was in the Garden of Eden, it was in the service of God, as he was in Job,  because obviously God permitted him to be there. And, God does allow temptation, although He does not tempt anyone.

But in Genesis we have no reference to a "Son of God" (angel), as we do in Job 2:1, unambiguously, including the satan.

The idea of a fallen angel is an apocalyptic latter-day development outside of mainstream Judaism. Eze 28, for all its deceptive similarity to satan, is not about Satan, but about a Phoenician king who thought himself a god.

Do you believe temptation is all we fight against?

Pretty much. Evil has no power unless we give in to temptation. When we give in to temptations, we sin. We make that decision. Not the devil.

15,810 posted on 06/28/2007 9:24:40 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50
Judaism did not and does not consider the satan as a fallen angel, but a loyal servant of God. In short, Judaism does not allow for an angelic rebellion. When Genesis was written, satan was not a fallen angel.

Kosta, Satan is NOT a loyal servant of God and there was an angelic rebellion. When Genesis was written he was THE fallen angel that tempted Adam and Eve and as Paul wrote, wholly seduced them.

11 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtility, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicty that is in Christ.

Beguiled is #1818 - exapatao, to seduce wholly.

He was fallen when Genesis was written, he fell before that and when he was in the Garden of Eden he was following his own plan - to stop the line to Christ. I agree in that God does allow temptation. It is part of His plan to see who we will follow.

But in Genesis we have no reference to a "Son of God" (angel), as we do in Job 2:1, unambiguously, including the satan.

Do you believe it was a literal talking serpent, or a literal tree in the garden? Remember, reference was made to him being in the garden in Ezekiel and Revelation.

The idea of a fallen angel is an apocalyptic latter-day development outside of mainstream Judaism. Eze 28, for all its deceptive similarity to satan, is not about Satan, but about a Phoenician king who thought himself a god.

Ezekiel 28 is about Satan. He was the King of Tyre, or Tyrus, before his fall and the prince after his fall. If mainstream Judaism doesn't agree with Satan being a fallen angel then mainstream Judaism doesn't agree with the Old Testament.

Pretty much. Evil has no power unless we give in to temptation. When we give in to temptations, we sin. We make that decision. Not the devil.

Fair enough, when we sin it is our choice, we make the decision and he applauds. However, he is our enemy, the enemy of all Christians and when you go to battle you must know who your enemy is.

15,844 posted on 06/29/2007 8:09:58 AM PDT by Ping-Pong
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