Posted on 12/06/2006 6:18:21 AM PST by NYer
Wrong! I'm replying to what you say the church teaches. So what you're really saying is that you can be ignored. Ok.
I think St. Jerome expressed it best when, writing in the fourth century, he said:
We do not worship, we do not adore, for fear that we should bow down to the creature rather than to the creator, but we venerate the relics of the martyrs in order the better to adore him whose martyrs they are.
Of course, Jerome is best known for translating the Scriptures from the ancient languages into Latin, the most widely-spoken language in West at the time, so that more people could have access to them. A mere twelve centuries before the KJV ...
Benedictus Deus in angelis suis et in sanctis suis.
"Blessed be God in His angels and in His saints." Amen.
It's a pity that Protestants deny the doctrine of the Communion of Saints, one of the elements of the Apostles' Creed, and the underlying theological dispute made manifest here. When all the theorizing is said and done, I'll be glad to have the prayers of this great cloud of witnesses presented to the Father on my behalf at the hour of my death, than to be without them.
Well, Campion probably got tired of all of us. And rightly so.
I, simpleton, will try to fill in. All catholics know that the prayer is answered by God. We're simply thanking the saint who interceded for us.
Simple as that. "It's a catholic thing, you wouldn't understand." Help yourself, read what the church teaches. Read the history, read the catechism.
If you read it, and don't agree with it, fine.
BTW, people err when they think that "tradition" began with the RC church. For example, canonization is widely meant to mean "confirmation"--to confirm what is already recognized. It doesn't mean identifying & setting apart individuals & books of the Bible...tradition was both an oral & print tradition well before it was ever institutionalized.
Yeah. Endurance test, eh?
Gotta go for now, too...touch base later.
As I said earlier in this thread: 1 Cor. 1:13: "Is Christ divided?" No. Our baptism is in the same Lord, and I thank Him for all we have in common w/our RC brothers--far more (& of greater import) than we divide over.
hahahaha.. exactly. Ignore me. Go read it all for yourself. The catechism is on line. "Catholic answers" is on line. There is a TON of material for you to read, if you have an open mind and are willing to read it for yourself.
Go learn something. What have you got to lose?
Yes, I think we know that already.
And now that salvation and that separation have been accomplished. They're not sinners any more, they've been cleansed from sin and are perfected in the presence of a holy and righteous God, and Jesus is "not ashamed to call them brothers" (Heb 2:11)
Next ... ???
Endurance test? Yeah, I suppose so. When it's been pointed out to you and you say "yeah but, yeah but, yeah but." Then go into the "I don't want to bring up the bad popes, or the bad priests, but..."
You just came here to throw some stones. The reasons why we believe what we do were presented to you. If you want to read further, research the catechism, read the writings of the saints.
If you don't agree with it, go your way.
Same for me here too. It's fun to cross swords and joust among ourselves from time to time, but we are on the same side of many of the battles raging between the forces of good and evil.
P.S. Great, great Pope! Fantastic choice.
And with that... I'm out of here.
well, I think I'll stick to police posts. Probably doing more harm than good here.
It was the "Reformers" and their arrogant "offspring" who are in error, not Catholics and Orthodox.
you wrote: Come on fellow Protestants/Evangelicals, we need to lighten up here. If this is authentic, then it is an AMAZING find and a blessing to all Christians.
Thank you Petronius Maximus for an injection of common sense.
I wonder why America has Veterans Day? Arlington Cemetery? Memorial Day?
I wonder why some place wreathes/flowers at another's grave?
Surely, anyone who partakes in these activities are "heretic worshipers?" /s
Oh, nevermind, it's just another Catholic bashing thread!
Ok, then when we Catholics ask departed saints to pray to God on our behalf, we are simply "asking more people to go to the head".
-A8
LOVE your post!
Ok, the amazing find part I would agree with 110%, but how is this 'a blessing' to me, a Christian? I'm asking seriously.
I suppose, but as a Christian, I have never, ever doubted that Paul was a real person, and I bet very few other Christians had doubts that he was either. Plus, it is extremely unlikely that there will be some 'smoking gun' proof that this really was Paul's tomb, unlike say some inscription on an Egyptian mummy's tomb.
Except of course tradition has ALWAYS held that Paul was buried on this site (I believe even Protestants accept this tradition since it has nothing to do with any theological disagreement) AND THE TOMB IS INSCRIPED, "APOSTLE PAUL, MARTYR."
It is beyond me why some here feel that any thread that is remotely related to Catholicism should be used as an advantage to smear Catholics. Christians have always buried their dead, go to any cemetary, those are memorials to PEOPLE, we do not bury our dead in unmarked graves and forget them as the Mohammadens do.
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