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The Story of Guadalupe: Hope for Our Violent World
CatholicExchange.com ^ | 12-12-06 | Mark Armstrong

Posted on 12/12/2006 10:30:49 AM PST by Salvation

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**It is my hope and prayer that Gibson's film will serve as a catalyst to reveal why Cortez needed to stop the practice of human sacrifice and bring knowledge of the True God to the indigenous people of Mexico. It may also serve as a wake-up call to our culture in which Satan has convinced many of our people that slaughtering their most innocent citizens in their mother's wombs is a basic human right.**

Amen!

1 posted on 12/12/2006 10:30:53 AM PST by Salvation
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To: All

**The eyes of Our Lady of Guadalupe are looking down with humility and compassion. This was a sign to the native people that she was not a god since in their iconography the gods stare straight ahead with their eyes wide open.**


2 posted on 12/12/2006 10:32:18 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: nickcarraway; sandyeggo; Lady In Blue; NYer; american colleen; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; ...
Catholic Discussion Ping!

Please notify me via FReepmail if you would like to be added to or taken off the Catholic Discussion Ping List.

3 posted on 12/12/2006 10:33:23 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Religion Moderator

Could you please fix the title line to this. Guess I just missed copying a few letters. LOL!

Thanks in advance for your service.


4 posted on 12/12/2006 10:39:34 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation

Thanks for posting this, I was wondering about the image itself, after reading the thread about the scientific work done on it. I wasn't clear if the image with all the artwork is what miraculously appeared.

It seems it was, which is just amazing! Much more than a blurry image on a piece of toast or something.


5 posted on 12/12/2006 10:49:51 AM PST by FourtySeven (47)
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To: cpforlife.org; Coleus

Pro-life thread?


6 posted on 12/12/2006 10:50:10 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation

Interesting.

I know that many will find this shocking (NOT !!), but the San Francisco Chronicle has an exact opposite view of this movie. It says in this 12/11/06 article (via an "expert" they interviewed) that Gibson was 100% wrong in his depiction of the ancient Maya culture (even stating that there is no evidence that the sheer number of human sacrifices portrayed by Gibson ever took place). The author also makes sure he gets in some "subtle" digs against Gibson and Christianity, as well a snide comment about "The Passion of the Christ". Either way, get out your barf bags, and read what "the other side" is saying:

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/12/11/DDG5KMSDK51.DTL&hw=mel+gibson&sn=001&sc=1000


7 posted on 12/12/2006 10:53:50 AM PST by Zetman (I believe the children are the next generation.)
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To: Salvation

I love the story of our Lady of Guadalupe.


8 posted on 12/12/2006 10:56:52 AM PST by Sun (*MERRY CHRISTMAS!* And during this beautiful season, let's all pray for good to win over evil soon!)
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To: Sun
I am on the committee for the SOlemn Mass of Our Lady of Guadalupe which will be held this evening at our large Midwestern church. We will have flags of the Americas, children dressed in native costumes, a procession, and a dinner. I have been over helping decorate the church.

Most of the people on the committee are not Hispanic, but Anglo. A lot of people don't know that she is the patroness of ALL of the Americas.

9 posted on 12/12/2006 11:41:52 AM PST by Miss Marple (Lord, thank you for Mozart Lover's son's safe return, and look after Jemian's son, please!)
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To: Miss Marple

My daughter's second grade class is putting on a pagent tonight at church for Our Lady of Guadalupe. The kids are all excited about it. And there are very few hispanics in their school, I would say 98% anglo.


10 posted on 12/12/2006 11:46:36 AM PST by ShadowDancer (No autopsy, no foul.)
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To: Salvation; Mad Dawg

Ping.

My cup overflows. What a wonderful Mother.


11 posted on 12/12/2006 12:00:19 PM PST by Cap'n Crunch (Am I not here who am your mother? Is there anything else that you need?)
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To: Salvation

There is so much amazing (and alarming) science on the Shroud and the Oviedo Cloth, I should very much like to be directed to comparable science on the cloak containing the image of Our Lady of Guadelupe. It looks to be impressive and persuasive. Anyone know of a link to the good science on it?


12 posted on 12/12/2006 12:50:27 PM PST by Vicomte13 (Aure entuluva.)
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To: Salvation
The Holy Land

The Holy Land has been a real battleground between the Islamic peoples and Christianity over the centuries. Evidence of this are the numerous churches and basilicas that have been built by the Church, destroyed by, the Moslems, rebuilt by Catholic Crusaders, leveled again by the followers of Islam, and so on over the course of history. However, there is one remarkable exception: the Basilica of Saint Anne in Jerusalem.

The Crusaders built this church and named it in honor of the mother of the Blessed Virgin Mary. In the Crypt of St. Anne's Basilica, a statue of the Infant Mary is venerated on what is believed to be the exact spot where Our Lady was born. Their great reverence for Our Lady precluded the Moslems from destroying her birthplace. The foundation for Heaven's Peace Plan at Fatima, Portugal, can be found in the Land of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Spain

As the Moslems swept through Spain in the 8th century, a great religious treasure was buried for safe-keeping in the earth, high in the Estremadura Mountains. It was a much venerated statue of Our Lady holding the Divine Child Jesus that was a gift of Pope Gregory the Great to Bishop Leander of Seville. After the overthrow of Moorish occupation, the image was uncovered in the year 1326, subsequent to a vision of Our Lady to a humble shepherd by the name of Gil. Our Lady's very special statue was enshrined in a nearby Franciscan Monastery next to the "Wolf River."

The Moslems, during their Spanish occupation, had actually named the river. The Islamic term for Wolf River is "Guadalupe" (Guada = River; Lupe = Wolf). Hence, the famous Catholic image in Spain has been known, since the 14th century, by the Islamic name of "Our Lady of Guadalupe."

Mexico

In the fullness of time, we can be sure that Almighty God knew that the Islamic religion would pose a serious threat to Christianity. God also knew that the Spanish missionaries would face grave resistance in the "new world" from the mighty Aztec Indians. The Aztecs worshipped an evil stone "serpent god" that demanded human sacrifice. It was extremely difficult to win souls for Christ from these bloodthirsty savages. However, with God all things are possible. Our Lady appeared to a humble Aztec Indian convert by the name of Juan Diego in 1531. When asked her name by Juan Diego, at the request of the local bishop, Our Lady's response, in the Aztec language, included the words "te coatlaxopeuh" (pronounced: "te quatlasupe") and meant "one who crushes the head of the stone serpent."

To Juan Diego and his fellow Aztecs, this revelation had great meaning, coupled with the miraculous image of Our Lady standing on top of a "crescent," the symbol of this evil serpent god. A tidal wave of conversions to Catholicism ensued. However, Bishop Zumarraga, who was from Spain, made what was no doubt a "heavenly mistake" that one day may lead to the mass conversion of Moslems. To the Bishop's Spanish ears, Our Lady's Aztec name of "Te Quatlasupe" sounded just like the name of the revered Madonna from Spain with the Islamic name, "Guadalupe." Hence, the bishop named the Mexican Madonna "Our Lady of Guadalupe." It is interesting that the "crescent" is also the symbol for Islam and that America's Shrine to Our Lady has an Islamic name.

Battle of Lepanto

On October 7, 1571, a great victory over the mighty Turkish fleet was won by Catholic naval forces primarily from Spain, Venice, and Genoa under the command of Don Juan of Austria. It was the last battle at sea between "oared" ships, which featured the most powerful navy in the world, a Moslem force with between 12,000 to 15,000 Christian slaves as rowers. The patchwork team of Catholic ships was powered by the Holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Knowing that the Christian forces were at a distinct material disadvantage, the holy pontiff, St. Pope Pius V called for all of Europe to pray the Rosary for victory. We know today that the victory was decisive, prevented the Islamic invasion of Europe, and evidenced the Hand of God working through Our Lady. At the hour of victory, St. Pope Pius V, who was hundreds of miles away at the Vatican, is said to have gotten up from a meeting, went over to a window, and exclaimed with supernatural radiance: "The Christian fleet is victorious!" and shed tears of thanksgiving to God.

What you may not know is that one of three admirals commanding the Catholic forces at Lepanto was Andrea Doria. He carried a small copy of Mexico's Our Lady of Guadalupe into battle. This image is now enshrined in the Church of San Stefano in Aveto, Italy. Not many know that at the Monastery of Our Lady of Guadalupe in Spain, one can view a huge warship lantern that was captured from the Moslems in the Battle of Lepanto. In Rome, look up to the ceiling of S. Maria in Aracoeli and behold decorations in gold taken from the Turkish galleys. In the Doges' Palace in Venice, Italy, one can witness a giant Islamic flag that is now a trophy from a vanquished Turkish ship from the Victory. At Saint Mary Major Basilica in Rome, close to the tomb of the great St. Pope Pius V, one was once able to view yet another Islamic flag from the Battle, until 1965, when it was returned to Istanbul in an intended friendly token of concord.

13 posted on 12/12/2006 1:10:07 PM PST by Nihil Obstat (viva il papa)
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To: Salvation

"It is my hope and prayer that Gibson's film will serve as a catalyst to reveal why Cortez needed to stop the practice of human sacrifice and bring knowledge of the True God to the indigenous people of Mexico. It may also serve as a wake-up call to our culture in which Satan has convinced many of our people that slaughtering their most innocent citizens in their mother's wombs is a basic human right."

I find it surprising that anyone who realizes the U.S. has been attacked, and is also under invasion by a Pro-life people, do not see the correlation. I call it the Manasseh Judgment. God told the Israelites they were being given the promised land because the people who originally lived there sacrificed their children, and if they did the same thing, they, too, would lose their land. Which of course, they did, and were dispersed by the people from Babylon, Iraq. God blesses pro-lifers, not nations that practice child sacrifice.


14 posted on 12/12/2006 1:15:41 PM PST by huldah1776 (Worthy is the Lamb.)
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To: Salvation

Great read in addition to daily readings. Thanks for posting.


15 posted on 12/12/2006 1:36:49 PM PST by Gerish (Feed your faith and your doubts will starve to death.)
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To: Salvation; Coleus
Pro-life thread? Yep.

BTW, I went to Mass this AM at the nearby Benedictine Abbey/ Seminary (15min from home). A priest friend told me in advance that they celebrated the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe yesterday, on the 11th. He was almost apologizing but had to go and couldn't explain.

Y'all have any ideas?
16 posted on 12/12/2006 2:04:46 PM PST by cpforlife.org (A Catholic Respect Life Curriculum is available at KnightsForLife.org)
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To: Coleus; nickcarraway; narses; Mr. Silverback; Canticle_of_Deborah; TenthAmendmentChampion; ...
Pro-Life PING

Please FreepMail me if you want on or off my Pro-Life Ping List.

17 posted on 12/12/2006 2:05:20 PM PST by cpforlife.org (A Catholic Respect Life Curriculum is available at KnightsForLife.org)
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To: Miss Marple
Thats wonderful, Miss Marple.

My grandmother was a devotee of Our Lady of Guadalupe all of her life. At the age of 86 she died on this date, Dec 12, 1988. We all felt that Our Lady was indeed by her side when she passed.
18 posted on 12/12/2006 2:13:21 PM PST by BlueAngel
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To: huldah1776

The Truth is hard, but it's the truth.


19 posted on 12/12/2006 2:17:47 PM PST by Vicomte13 (Aure entuluva.)
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To: Salvation

Such a beautiful story. Thanks for the ping.


20 posted on 12/12/2006 2:36:29 PM PST by Texagirl4W (Jesus came to forgive sin, not to accept sin.)
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To: Zetman
the San Francisco Chronicle has an exact opposite view of this movie. It says in this 12/11/06 article (via an "expert" they interviewed) that Gibson was 100% wrong in his depiction of the ancient Maya culture

And in Iran they are holding a conference saying that the Holocaust never happened!

What I find amazing is that the large numbers of Mexican converts almost equaled the number who turned away in the Reformation in Europe.

21 posted on 12/12/2006 3:55:57 PM PST by FatherofFive (Choose life!)
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To: Salvation

A truly remarkable, beautiful story, thanks for posting.


22 posted on 12/12/2006 4:04:37 PM PST by khnyny (God Bless the Republic for which it stands)
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To: FourtySeven; Carolina

**It seems it was, which is just amazing!**

Our priest related several miracles connected with the tilma.
First, the material will disintegrate in a period of years -- don't know the exact reason, but it might be connected with some kind of plant fiber -- I really don't know. It's still there today!

They had lots of candles burning under it for a long time -- Our santuary light is below cloth that covers our speakers and the cloth has to be replaced every so often because of the soot stain. The tilma has not been damaged by soot.

The Communists, in an effort to wipe out the last bastion of Catholicity in Mexico, set off a bomb below the case that holds the tilma. A metal cross was bent backwards over 30 degrees and all the windows on the church were blown out, but the glass protecting the tilma image was not broken.

The building has a huge fire, and everything inside was damaged, but the case with the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe survived the fire. Whether that fire is connected with the bombing, I don't know. This last one was one that I had heard about. Our priest mentioned the others today.


23 posted on 12/12/2006 5:10:44 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Zetman

I think I will choose not to believe the SF Chronicle.

(Can't fault them that badly, because an ad in the Chronicle brought our family out of California to Oregon! LOL!


24 posted on 12/12/2006 5:12:17 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Miss Marple

Sounds wonderful. Carry on! You are such an inspiration!


25 posted on 12/12/2006 5:13:10 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Vicomte13
Here are some additional links, a couple on the sicnece side:

Our Lady of Guadalupe: Protectress of the Unborn

Was Our Lady of Guadalupe Wrong?

METHODIST CHURCH DISPLAYS VIRGIN OF GUADALUPE

GUADALUPE DEVOTION IS CROSSING INTO PROTESTANT DENOMINATIONS

 
A Novena to Our Lady of Guadalupe

Relic From Guadalupe Tilma to Tour U.S.

The Amazing Truth of Our Lady of Guadalupe

Our Lady Of Guadalupe

Celebrating 470 years of an ongoing miracle, the apparition of Our Lady of Guadalupe 1531

Science Stunned by Virgin of Guadalupe´s Eyes

OUR LADY OF GUADALUPE [Read only]


26 posted on 12/12/2006 5:15:22 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: huldah1776

**God blesses pro-lifers, not nations that practice child sacrifice.**

Amen!


28 posted on 12/12/2006 5:17:19 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Texagirl4W

Glad to help.


29 posted on 12/12/2006 5:17:59 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: khnyny

You're welcome, friend.


30 posted on 12/12/2006 5:18:27 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation
"... but then on December 12, 1531, Mary provided a sign that convinced the bishop that Juan Diego spoke the truth."

Is this the first recorded appearance of Mary?

31 posted on 12/12/2006 5:20:24 PM PST by wmfights (Romans 8:37-39)
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To: All
Tuesday, December 12
Our Lady of Guadalupe

The Answer Beginning to Happen

Bishop Zumarraga prayed to Our Lady for help in what was an impossible situation. How could he convert a people who were too terrified of their gods to turn away from them? How could he ever unite under the banner of Christ the Spanish and the Aztecs, when there was so much reason for each to be suspicious of the other? As the Bishop prayed, Our Lady quietly appeared on an unimportant hill to a poor Aztec. At the very moment Zummarraga was longing for help, the answer was already beginning to happen. The Jewish people longed for their kingdom to be restored and to last for ever, as had been promised to the great King David. As the Jewish people prayed for a messiah to deliver them, an angel was appearing to a young girl in the little known northern town of Nazareth. As they prayed for deliverance, the answer was already beginning to happen. As we pray that God’s kingdom come through Jesus Christ, do we pray with faith that the answer to our prayers is already beginning to happen? Do we recognize the seemingly insignificant ways that God is already breaking into our lives? Are we aware that God has chosen us as those seemingly insignificant instruments through which he will manifest the coming of his Kingdom?


Reflection based on Luke 1:26-38

Father Richard Veras

Loving Father, let me be aware of all the ways that you offer yourself to me in even the least significant circumstances of my life.

32 posted on 12/12/2006 6:06:22 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Miss Marple

Bush v. Gore decided December 12th, 2000.

Hussein captured December 12th, 2003.

I think Our Lady of Guadalupe has been taking special care of us these last few years.


33 posted on 12/12/2006 6:17:27 PM PST by mockingbyrd (Good heavens! What women these Christians have-----Libanus)
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To: Salvation

Bump!


34 posted on 12/12/2006 6:24:43 PM PST by Tribune7 (Conservatives hold bad behavior against their leaders. Dims don't.)
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To: mockingbyrd

I hope she continues.


35 posted on 12/12/2006 6:25:09 PM PST by Tribune7 (Conservatives hold bad behavior against their leaders. Dims don't.)
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To: mockingbyrd

I agree. Thanks for reminding me!


36 posted on 12/12/2006 6:58:11 PM PST by Miss Marple (Lord, thank you for Mozart Lover's son's safe return, and look after Jemian's son, please!)
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To: wmfights

Nope. There were definitely a few in the first millenium as well.


37 posted on 12/12/2006 7:04:51 PM PST by Pyro7480 ("Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world." - Pope Blessed Pius IX)
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To: Miss Marple

"I am on the committee for the SOlemn Mass of Our Lady of Guadalupe which will be held this evening at our large Midwestern church. We will have flags of the Americas, children dressed in native costumes, a procession, and a dinner. I have been over helping decorate the church.
Most of the people on the committee are not Hispanic, but Anglo. A lot of people don't know that she is the patroness of ALL of the Americas."

I am proud to have "met" you.

For a few years my husband got our priest to have a Holy Eucharist adoration from 9 p.m. on Dec. 8 to 1 a.m. on Dec. 9 for preborn babies.


38 posted on 12/12/2006 7:37:03 PM PST by Sun (*MERRY CHRISTMAS!* And during this beautiful season, let's all pray for good to win over evil soon!)
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To: Sun; Salvation; NYer; SunkenCiv
I saw the film "Apocalypto" over the weekend and I would highly recommend it for viewing. I even saw some parents taking their older children to see this "R"-rated film. Let me say that the violence is not excessive for the subject matter and is all part of the plot. In fact, Mel pulled his punches on several occasions (I don't want to spoil anyone by giving details). The violence is more like something you'd see in "Conan the Barbarian" or the "Xena" TV show. There's human sacrifice, but it's part of the plot. This is NOT "Rambo in the jungle", it carries deeper connotations.

It was pretty clear to me that this film is a metaphor for a decayed and dying USA which is rotting from within because it kills its children. Mel opens the film with the printed statement, No civilization is ever conquered from without unless it first decays from within" (something to that effect). This film also could be seen as a metaphor for a nation under attack by terroristic outside forces, and the only way to save ourselves is to be strong, as strong as we can be, because only we ourselves can protect our own family.

The characters are very appealing. Respect is shown to aged men and women. Even the villains, vile as they are, are portrayed with a degree of humanity.

Mel has included "religious" themed comments. When the captive Indians are marched away from their village, the youngest children are left behind as unneeded, left to fend for themselves. A woman captive looks back and prays aloud, apparently to their goddess, "Blessed Mother Ochotl, look after them and protect them."

In another scene, the bad guys begin to figure out that a lot of bad luck is coming their way because they've been hurting the hero, a young man named "Jaquar", and one prays to their god, "Father, forgive us for our trespasses against your holy son Jaguar".

This film is a story about a man trying to protect his family. It's very watchable. I had no problem at all following the subtitles.

My only criticism was an unnecessary use of the "f" word in the subtitles, in a phrase "he's f---ed" meaning "his goose is cooked". It got a cheap laugh and I guess Mel did it for his male audience.

39 posted on 12/12/2006 8:48:59 PM PST by Ciexyz (I highly recommend "Apocalypto" - raves, raves, raves.)
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To: Salvation
Can't fault them that badly, because an ad in the Chronicle brought our family out of California to Oregon! LOL!

Well finally!! Something good that came out of the SF Chronicle!! I knew there had to be one good thing somewhere!!

: )

BTW - I thought all the libs were leaving the Bay Area and moving to Oregon. Is it actually better up there than it is down here??
40 posted on 12/12/2006 9:24:34 PM PST by Zetman (I believe the children are the next generation.)
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To: mockingbyrd

Oh, my Goodness! I had forgotten those dates.


41 posted on 12/12/2006 9:28:51 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Pyro7480

Thanks, Pyro. Wasn't sure of the answer -- I knew I had to look it up, but I was coming down where you are.


42 posted on 12/12/2006 9:29:53 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: FatherofFive
What I find amazing is that the large numbers of Mexican converts almost equaled the number who turned away in the Reformation in Europe.

Hence, there is balance!! Interesting observation (even if my reply sounds like a line from "The Karate Kid"!!).
43 posted on 12/12/2006 9:31:55 PM PST by Zetman (I believe the children are the next generation.)
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To: Zetman

I lot of liberals are up here. Portland and Eugene areas. But everywhere else it is a red state. We are getting more Republicans in some of the larger cities, too it seems.

But it was good to be out of California! (And in my life story, it is good for me to be in the parish I am in!!)


44 posted on 12/12/2006 9:35:21 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Ciexyz

Thanks for your personal review of the movie. I just may go see it now!


45 posted on 12/12/2006 9:36:30 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Ciexyz

This sounds like a good vs. evil movie.

(but I'm not happy about the language, either)


46 posted on 12/12/2006 10:30:17 PM PST by Sun (*MERRY CHRISTMAS!* And during this beautiful season, let's all pray for good to win over evil soon!)
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To: 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; annalex; ...


47 posted on 12/12/2006 11:12:19 PM PST by Coleus (Christmas is part of our Western Civilization and is a US Holiday for all Americans)
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To: Ciexyz; Berosus; Cincinatus' Wife; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; Ernest_at_the_Beach; FairOpinion; ..

Thanks, Ciexyz, for the review and ping.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1752349/posts?page=39#39


48 posted on 12/13/2006 8:19:18 AM PST by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Thursday, November 16, 2006 https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Salvation
this article has been open on my desktop for days. finally finished it.

Thanks for the post.

49 posted on 12/13/2006 10:48:47 AM PST by the invisib1e hand (He has cast down the mighty from their thrones)
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To: Pyro7480
Nope. There were definitely a few in the first millenium as well.

Are these well documented? IOW, is there an official list of the more prominent appearances?

50 posted on 12/13/2006 10:53:48 AM PST by wmfights (Romans 8:37-39)
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