Posted on 01/19/2007 11:12:09 AM PST by NYer
You have conveniently twisted the entire argument and are now asking me if I believe God is real! Let's get back to the point:
Your original argument was that when Jesus said we must eat His flesh to have life within us that He was speaking only spiritually and not about His physical flesh. My point is that He most certainly was speaking about His physical flesh as the miracles of the Holy Eucharist give evidence - which is what this thread is all about.
There is no such thing as "only" spiritual.
That's why I asked if you think God is real.
Since "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in Truth." then we are worshipping someone who is REAL or someone who is only metaphorical.
Do you think God is real?
Here's a little different translation, but it doesn't have all the verses:
Humbly I adore thee, Verity unseen,
who thy glory hidest 'neath these shadows mean;
lo, to thee surrendered, my whole heart is bowed,
tranced as it beholds thee, shrined within the cloud.
Taste and touch and vision to discern thee fail;
faith, that comes by hearing, pierces through the veil.
I believe whate'er the Son of God hath told;
what the Truth hath spoken, that for truth I hold.
O memorial wondrous of the Lord's own death;
living Bread that givest all thy creatures breath,
grant my spirit ever by thy life may live,
to my taste thy sweetness neverfailing give.
Jesus, whom now hidden, I by faith behold,
what my soul doth long for, that thy word foretold:
face to face thy splendor, I at last shall see,
in the glorious vision, blessed Lord, of thee.
If you believe that there is no such thing as "only" spiritual, then you must believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist - Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. Otherwise, it would be "only spiritual."
Your convoluting of the argument is intellectually dishonest. If you want to disagree with what I said, just do so. Twisting my words around makes you look like you can't keep your train of thought.
Is the miracle in the wafer ?
************
So what's new?
Huh?
++Huh? ++
Can God act without the wafer? If so how do you KNOW it was the wafers, and not a placebo effect?
I am NOT twisting your words around. I'm not commenting on your words at all, so far as I know.
I'm asking a simple question, "Do you believe God is REAL?"
This is the parish at which I attended the Catholics Returning Home program. The pastor heard my first confession in the last 25 or so years.
Welcome home! It takes a lot of strength to go to confession after so many years (I know :-) Now that you have come this far, work with your personal confessor to strengthen and develop your faith. You will be richly rewarded.
And thanks for the post! It's so good to hear from you.
Of course.
If so how do you KNOW it was the wafers, and not a placebo effect?
Because the phenomenon is observable to this day. It is not some kind of private revelation. It is a very public miracle. The flesh has been kept in an unsealed container for twelve centuries. The flesh and blood has not decomposed, but rather "in the Blood there were found proteins in the same normal proportions (percentage-wise) as are found in the sero-proteic make-up of the fresh normal blood."
Did you read the historical background for this miracle?
Ancient Anxanum, the city of the Frentanese, has contained for over twelve centuries the first and greatest Eucharistic Miracle of the Catholic Church. This wondrous Event took place in the 8th century A.D. in the little Church of St. Legontian, as a divine response to a Basilian monk's doubt about Jesus' Real Presence in the Eucharist.No comparable phenomenon exists anywhere on earth. The phenomenon cannot be explained scientifically, making the phenomenon a miracle. It should not be surprising to Christians (or any open-minded person) that a great miracle would be associated with the greatest sacrament offered by Christ's Church.During Holy Mass, after the two-fold consecration, the host was changed into live Flesh and the wine was changed into live Blood, which coagulated into five globules, irregular and differing in shape and size.
The Host-Flesh, as can be very distinctly observed today, has the same dimensions as the large host used today in the Latin church; it is light brown and appears rose-colored when lighted from the back.
The Blood is coagulated and has an earthy color resembling the yellow of ochre.
Various ecclesiastical investigation ("Recognitions") were conducted since 1574.
In 1970-'71 and taken up again partly in 1981 there took place a scientific investigation by the most illustrious scientist Prof. Odoardo Linoli, eminent Professor in Anatomy and Pathological Histology and in Chemistry and Clinical Microscopy. He was assisted by Prof. Ruggero Bertelli of the University of Siena.
The analyses were conducted with absolute and unquestionable scientific precision and they were documented with a series of microscopic photographs. These analyses sustained the following conclusions:
The Flesh is real Flesh. The Blood is real Blood.
The Flesh and the Blood belong to the human species.
The Flesh consists of the muscular tissue of the heart.
In the Flesh we see present in section: the myocardium, the endocardium, the vagus nerve and also the left ventricle of the heart for the large thickness of the myocardium. The Flesh is a "HEART" complete in its essential structure. The Flesh and the Blood have the same blood-type: AB (Blood-type identical to that which Prof. Baima Bollone uncovered in the Holy Shroud of Turin).
In the Blood there were found proteins in the same normal proportions (percentage-wise) as are found in the sero-proteic make-up of the fresh normal blood.
In the Blood there were also found these minerals: chlorides, phosphorus, magnesium, potassium, sodium and calcium.
The preservation of the Flesh and of the Blood, which were left in their natural state for twelve centuries and exposed to the action of atmospheric and biological agents, remains an extraordinary phenomenon.
same as the blood of the Sudarium. Adoro te devote, latens Deitas!
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John 6:52-58
John 15:20-22
Thank you. Evidently, sometimes it needs to be said.
Good for you. Welcome home!
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