Posted on 01/25/2007 8:45:51 PM PST by Salvation
Maybe that's because you're seeking an argument rather than truth?
Not quite. But how does that explain the anti-papists always getting their panties in a wad over theolgical discussions
Not sure, but could it have something to do with the funny hat crowd supporting their non-Scriptural doctrines with ever-shifting, relativistic, self-serving philosophies of men?
Or it could be that some idiot with at best a working knowlwdge of english, but no greek, hebrew, latin, or aramaic and having never read the giants of the early church, but who has studied his bible diligently after his burger king shift gets mad when he can't convince a Catholic that the 2000 year old institution is heretic.
Really old error is still error.
And I'd take a guy who works at Burger King who studies his Bible "diligently" over many of those supposed church fathers.
*************
Our beloved Pope Benedict is both wise and eloquent.
I
Like a long, drawn-out breath,
a pausing
was that last moment
of your old life.
You,
who had seen and felt and been so much
to those around you,
a clear lamp
for the light of your beloved son.
And so it came to this moment then,
long years after your darkest day,
and brightest morning,
long days since you last kissed him goodbye,
your perfect son.
Did you not
let that last breath pass
like a goodbye kiss to those gathered around you,
dear faces all.
A moment only of darkness,
and then,
once again,
that beloved voice whispered in your ear.
"Mother, it's time. Let's go home."
II
Sancta Maria,
Sancta Virgo virginum,
Ora pro nobis.
O Blessed Mother
on this day when we celebrate
your joyful Assumption,
your joyful entry into Heaven,
remember this day
all those left behind
without joy,
thinking there is no hope,
who see only the darkness.
Sancta Maria,
Mater boni Consilii,
Consolatrix afflictorum,
Ora pro nobis.
O Blessed Mother,
be this day
with those attacked for no reason
but that they belong to the wrong group,
the unborn,
the poor,
the persecuted for their color,
their background,
their stance for right,
those caught in the crossfire
of other people's hate,
those who had no idea they were combattants
in another group's war.
Sancta Maria,
Mater Dei,
Speculum iustitiae,
Refugium peccatorum,
Ora pro nobis.
O Blessed Mother
You who comfort us in our sorrows,
Remind us of the truth of your son,
Aid us in our repentence,
Tell us the ways of Jesus' truth,
O keep us always under your mantle
safe in the loving hands
of such a mother!
Sancta Maria
Regina Angelorum,
Regina Martyrum,
Regina pacis,
Regina in caelum assumpta,
Ora pro nobis.
Amen.
III
Oh Blessed Mother,
when I think of your falling asleep
being reunited forever with your Son
assumed into Heaven
where you could become mother of us all,
I long to say,
Thank you, Mother,
for caring for us all,
for covering us with your mantle,
for looking after us when we stray,
for leading us home to your son.
Thank you Mother,
for all the sorrows, toil and care
you were willing to give
during your earthly life,
and thank you for trying so hard to reach
a hardheaded mankind
that too often chooses to go its own way.
Thank you Mother,
for helping to teach us how to be salt, light, and
leaven in this dark and sad world,
may we always be open to further your intentions,
and those of the sacred heart of your divine Son.
Amen
that is beautiful - thank you.
And I'd take a guy who works at Burger King who studies his Bible "diligently" over many of those supposed church fathers.
Yes you've proven that many times over ;)
By the way, it always amuses me that so many have a disdain for "learned men" when it comes to matters of theology, and yet, would you chose a surgeon who had spent many years learning about his craft, or would you chose a surgeon who had picked up a medical book and read through it after his shift at Burger King?
Yes, very wise. Two popes posted for a reason!!
Thanks, KAC, hopefully this thread can stay Catholic in nature.
Thanks for coming on board -- this is basically a Catholic thread, although I didn't mark it as such. (Don't like to be exclusionary.)
But hopefully, people will realize that when they put down the mother of Jesus Christ, true Man and true God, that they are putting down her Son as well as the god the Father and God the Holy Spirit.
I'm pretty sure that most non-catholics respect and admire Mary. We just don't worship her.
I'm pretty sure that most non-catholics respect and admire Mary. We just don't worship her.
Neither do Catholics, but don't let the truth stop you from "bearing false witness". For that matter, don't let the commandment against "bearing false witness" stop you either.
What was that again about throwing stones? Oh I remember. Your just the onlooking coat holder. Continue on.
Hate to post and run, but my statue of Mary is calling me, so I'm off to worship. 2 for the price of one, I get to worship a statue and the Blessed Virgin!
;)
Sure, that's why they're always piping up that Mary was "nothing special" and "just a vessel used by God".
Part of the rejection of orthodox Mariology is a strident egalitarianism among Protestants, who think that everyone who is "saved" is equal in holiness to everyone else. Any "respect" or "admiration" given to Mary runs afoul of that idea. Of course, the best portrait of heaven we have in Scripture, Revelation, knows nothing of any egalitarianism.
And, if by "worship" you mean the worship of latria properly directed to God, then Catholics don't worship Mary, either. (The original meaning of "worship" is simply "to honor," which is why the traditional marriage vows involve the groom promising, "With my body, I thee worship" to his bride.)
When I witness all the adoration of Mary taking place by RCCers, and then hear you deny that you're actually worshipping her, I have flashbacks of Bill Clinton shaking his finger at the country and saying, "I never had... with that woman!"
"I guess it all depends upon what the definition of is is!"
If you think that what we do for Mary is adoration, then I don't think you know what real adoration looks like. If you give God no more honor than we give Mary, you aren't giving God the honor he deserves, but a poor substitute for it.
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