Posted on 02/05/2007 10:35:59 AM PST by MichaelTheeArchAngel
It seems to me that you confuse and insist upon confusing a three god entity with the Trinity. That is not the meaning of the Trinity.
There is only one God.
He is revealed as God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Each one of those persons performs very different functions and ministries as He reveals Himself to us in order that we might take on the mind of Christ.
One miistry of the Holy Spirit is the empowering of the believer to memorize Scripture and recall it as in photographic memory when the situation arises for it's utility. Great post.
[1 John 1:3] That which we have seen and heard declare we to you, that ye also may have fellowship with us, and our fellowship [is] with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ.
This would have been an excellent time for John to include the Holy Spirit if the triune concept of a God head was being taught by the Apostles.
They are speaking through the inspiration of God the Holy Spirit. He need not exalt Himself.
Pul-eeze!
Not even a nod to Timothy and Galations?
John 1 isn't all that big a bugaboo but it requires some mastery of FUNDAMENTAL research and interpretation skills that 95% of those on this thread have demonstrated that they lack.
The mere fact that someone leads off with John 1 shows that they are willing to build or support doctrine based on one scripture and ignore dozens of clearly written contradictory scriptures.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
Priests of God and of Christ, but not the Holy Spirit? I guess the Trinitarians look at the glass as 2/3 full.
You know....they are just deluded into following this 1700 year old heresy that has absolutely no foundation in scripture. You can simply shake your head and wonder why. I really cannot comprehend how seemingly intelligent people can fall for this goofy doctrine.
It is right out of Babylon!
**God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.**
As someone as already pointed out, those phrases are not found in the Bible.
Why would the Son of God have to ask the Father to send twelve legions of angels if he, as the Son, has his own separate, yet equal power to the Father?
Simple. As the Son of God, any miraculous happening was the Father(Spirit; John 4:23,24) in him doing the works, telling him what to say and do when the matter was spiritual.
The man Christ Jesus said, "I, of myself can do nothing", or "I thirst". That wasn't God talking in those instances.
Jesus Christ(fleshly man with a soul) knew AND felt the presense of the Father(Spirit) in him right up to the cross. Then the Father(Spirit) left, and Jesus cried, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" At that moment, the Christ knew that the Father had departed from him. How strange that must have felt. Then the moment of death. Diety can NOT die. The Son died. Jesus had said he had power IN himself to lay his life down and take it back up. That power was the Father in him.
"Thou wilt not leave my soul in hell..". Acts 2:27
"Him hath God raised up.." Acts 10:40
The Christ is the focal point, the heir of all things. He who has had all things from the beginning, is not an heir but the original owner.
All power has been GIVEN Jesus Christ by the Father(Spirit) in him.
"God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself".
It's the revelation of Jesus Christ. Who he REALLY is!
"..The blessed and ONLY Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who ONLY hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting, Amen." 1Tim. 6:15,16
>> There are other words that describe believing what makes no sense and contradicts the Bible <<
You are the one who contradicts the bible. To the trinitarian, there is no contradiction. Jesus is both God and Man. God exists in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Accept these propositions, and the bible makes sense. Deny them, and you end up having to ignore, as you do, key portions of the bible, such as John's Doxology.
>> God is in Christ. And Christ is in the believer. Doesn't that make the believer God, too? <<
No. The paper is in the folder; the folder is in the briefcase. That doesn't mean that the briefcase is the paper. But the bible doesn't say God is IN Jesus. It says Jesus is God.
>> In the New Testament, the word 'mystery' has specific meaning and refers to something very special and it isn't 3 n 1 or anything like that <<
Yes, it does refer to something Paul says IS known. "or I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." or "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed," or "Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:"
>> In the New Testament, the word 'mystery' has specific meaning and refers to something very special and it isn't 3 n 1 or anything like that. <<
Oh? How's this: "And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ" So, all things were made by Jesus. Hence, Jesus is not merely the man born of Mary, but predated all things. Do you know what you call one who creates all things? Who is eternal? You call such a being a god.
The Lord is our God and He will take on the title of King of Kings and Lord of Lords. That Lord is our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus.
But here is Isaiah 61:1 from Young's Literal Translation:
"The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah [is] on me, Because Jehovah did anoint me To proclaim tidings to the humble, He sent me to bind the broken of heart, To proclaim to captives liberty, And to bound ones an opening of bands. . . . ".
Jesus reads this passage from Isaiah after his Baptism by John [and in the wilderness] at which the Father and the Holy Spirit were present, indicating that Jesus is the "me" here.
Also from Young's; [John 4;21-24] 21 Jesus saith to her, `Woman, believe me, that there doth come an hour, when neither in this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, shall ye worship the Father; 22 ye worship what ye have not known; we worship what we have known, because the salvation is of the Jews 23 but, there cometh an hour, and it now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father also doth seek such to worship him;; 24 God [is] a Spirit, and those worshiping Him, in spirit and truth it doth behove to worship.
[John 10:30] I and the Father are one."
And I didn't say that God was in Jesus, I said God was in Christ.
That's a slick little deceptive trick!
But once again you are simply wrong on what the Bible says or doesn't say.
Jhn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
2Cr 12:19 Again, think ye that we excuse ourselves unto you? we speak before God in Christ: but [we do] all things, dearly beloved, for your edifying.
Gal 3:17 And this I say, [that] the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Phl 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
1Th 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
It says Jesus is God.
Chapter and verse please.
Jesus is both God and Man.
Chapter and verse please.
God exists in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Again, chapter and verse please.
You have shown a solid tendency to make unsupported claims and claims without reference as I have done above, and I know why.
There is no verse that says "God the Son", "Trininty", "God the Holy Spirit", "Jesus is God", etc.
Nothing at all. That's why you can't use the Bible to support those claims and you never will.
So what are you trying to conclude from this?
There is a big difference between the word "a" and the word "the" especially when the word "Holy" is added to it. The words "the Holy Spirit" identify a particular spirit. It is a proper name for a specific spirit.
Even Isaiah recognized that with the use of the word "the" in front of "Spirit". Not just any spirit, or a spirit, but "the Spirit of the Lord God", and Jesus then tells us more regarding his name with the addition of the word: "Holy". His name is "the Holy Spirit".
Who did Jesus send to his apostles when he ascended and sat down next to His Father?
Not a who but a what.
What? Holy spirit. Spirit that is holy. pneuma hagion
Holy spirit was sent. No definate article in the Greek. The definate article "the" was added in translation to substantiate faulty theology.
Don't believe me? just look at any interlinear or concordance.
Are you trying to say that there is more than one "Holy Spirit"?
Perhaps I should have posted all of the proof that I have. But I think that there would be people the would still say that black is white.
There is God the Creator who is Holy and who is Spirit.
God placed/places his spirit with, on, and in man.
There is the gift of spirit on the day of Pentecost. This spirit comes from God and is holy.
Don't tell me you've been fooled by a poor KJV and tradition?
Do the research. Look in an interlinear and Stong's or Young's. I have.
Once you see that the Greek texts don't often support some of the common theology you might revise your beliefs.
That takes a lot of work, humility, courage, and a sincere desire to know the truth. Most people aren't courageous enough to accept challenges to their religious beliefs.
Ever been told to tithe? Ever tried to find the word "tithe" in the New Testament since Pentacost?
Been baptized? Water or spirit? Hmmmmm....Ephesians says that there is one baptism. Which is it?
The list goes on and on...tradition or truth...?
>> But the bible doesn't say God is IN Jesus. And I didn't say that God was in Jesus, I said God was in Christ. That's a slick little deceptive trick! But once again you are simply wrong on what the Bible says or doesn't say. Jhn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 2Cr 12:19 Again, think ye that we excuse ourselves unto you? we speak before God in Christ: but [we do] all things, dearly beloved, for your edifying. Gal 3:17 And this I say, [that] the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. Phl 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 1Th 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. <<
I could have specified, "doesn't MERELY say God is IN Jesus." Given the context, however, you sure make a big fuss out of nothing.
>> Chapter and verse please... Chapter and verse please... Again, chapter and verse please. <<
>> You have shown a solid tendency to make unsupported claims and claims without reference as I have done above, and I know why. <<
Yeah, because I already did. I don't feel like typing the same stuff over and over again every time I refer to it. For now, your only response is to complain that I didn't rehash the entire argument from scratch every time?
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