Posted on 02/08/2007 7:01:33 AM PST by kawaii
08 February 2007, 11:26 Virgin Mary said to appear to an American lover of foul language and bless opposition to ROCOR’s unity with the Church in Russia
New York, February 8, Interfax - The anonymous creator of the ROCORNEWS website has stated that the Virgin Mary with a host of saints appeared to him during his night walk with his dog in the Central Park in New York.
‘The vision’ is now given all kinds of interpretation by irreconcilable opponents of unity between the Russian Church Abroad and the Moscow Patriarchate, who see in this statement a sign of heavenly blessing given upon their further efforts.
A closer look at the website has revealed a stream of unprintable abuse on the ROCOR head, Metropolitan Laurus, and Moscow Patriarchate officials.
According to the web report, ‘the saints’ walked barefoot, while the Virgin Mary wore ‘a large red headscarf’. She ‘talked’ with the author ‘for about a minute’ near the Metropolitan Museum informing him that ‘you will soon choose new bishops for yourselves and God’s blessing will rest on those of them who will please the faithful’.
According to the resource’s editor, this means that ‘new, real, bishops are to appear soon’ because the bishops of the Church Abroad will sign the Act of Communion with the Moscow Patriarchate.
IMO schismatics telegraphing their punch (and lying).
Ping to what promises to be an interesting discussion.
Lying is a strong charge. I would be ambivalent whether the problem here is lying or prelest: the report did not suggest that the visionary warded himself with the sign of the cross, as has often dispelled visions sent by the Father of Lies.
Of course the reunion of ROCOR with Moscow, and thereby full communion with the rest of the Church displeases the Evil One. It would not be surprising if a false vision were visited on one of those inclined to schism.
Actually it will be a dull discussion. The Orthodox will, as I have, dismiss the vision as a lie, and the folks you pinged will impugn the veneration of the Holy Theotokos and Ever-Virgin Mary. The two 'sides' will talk past each other.
Quite frankly I regard pinging hostile protestants to an Orthodox thread as an act of hostility. I hope your confession, like the Orthodox Church, has a season devoted to repentence upcoming. If you have some manner of sacramental confession, you might want to mention this in your next confession. If not, do whatever one does in your tradition to repent.
Discuss the issues all you want but do NOT make it personal.
good point, though I'll admit a bias in having read other reports on what 'ROCOR-V' folks have done to advance their cause... But certainly the possibility that he thought this vision was real is strong and I'd prefer not to think he was lying...
Really this is only interesting as an Orthodox discussion (possibly as an inter Catholic-Orthodox one).
'ROCOR-V' folks are schismatics out of communion with Orthodoxy in general.
It'd be as productive as telling protestants that because David Karesh was a kook something meaningful about all protestants could be aledged.
What makes it interesting, IMO, is that we're talking about a alleged Marian apparition to the Orthodox/schismatic Orthodox camps. Usually, questioning such an apparition draws fire, not the other way around.
You could have closed the discussion for Catholics and Orthodox only by using the term [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus] in the header. As it is, the thread is open.
questioning such an apparition draws fire
Any alleged apparition happening among Catholics gets "questioned" quite thoroughly, and more often than not it gets rejected. By Catholics. If it gains any kind of following, the local Bishop (that's the office often translated as "overseer" in Protestant Bibles) gets involved, his word is considered final (because the authority and office he holds are from God) ... and his word is usually "NO". Far from drawing fire, we consider this inquisition normal, necessary, and laudable.
David can address how our brethren in the East handle such matters.
well these are the same folks ('ROCOR-V') who drugged a bishop for months eventually kidnapping him when, having been separated from the secretary who'd been drugging him and regained some sense of sober thought, he'd retired himself.
I'm a bit quick on the trigger when it comes to questioning these folks statements... that said as TRD mentions I probably should at least give them the benefit of the doubt with regard to actually beleiving the things they say...
is there any way to modify the header at this point?
**‘a large red headscarf’**
Too much kool-aid here.
Yes, if that caucus designation is your wish, I'll change it right away. Just let me know.
I think that'd be very useful in maintaining useful discussion. I'd appriciate it if you could do that. thanks!
I don't disagree with you ... I just think it's really sad.
(might be useful to add a semi colon after American even)
Well it's not like its a suprise to anyone that some are going to split over this.
There's definitly still folks who feel that the church is merging with literally the folks who killed their parents or grandparents.
I am sad to see it justified on the basis of faith like this either way.
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