Posted on 02/08/2007 2:23:22 PM PST by NYer
In keeping with guidelines posted by the Religion Moderator, we are posting this thread (and future ones) a series on the Early Church Fathers, as a Catholic/Orthodox Caucus. Protestants are welcome to post comments but restraint from attacks, would be appreciated. This thread is posted to inform, support and defend the historic orgins of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches.
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Wow! Thanks!
great posts - thank you and God bless you
Revelation 8:3-4
Others you noted can be argued, but this one cannot.
I am thus always left knowing that I am wrong in some way.
Thanks, NYer.
To render this in more contemporary terms, let's take a closer look at Philip McCord. Fearful that he faced possible blindness in his right eye, Philip McCord, a Baptist went into the Church of the Immaculate Conception one day and prayed.
Phillip McCord
I need some help, he said in his quiet conversation with God in the fall of 2000.
Looking up, he saw a picture of Mother Guerin (now deceased), the foundress of the Sisters of Providence at St. Mary-of-the-Woods. He decided to pray to Mother Theodore and ask for her assistance.
If you see fit and have any influence, maybe you could speak [to God] on my behalf, he said to her.
McCord had undergone cataract surgery on both eyes that fall, and while the surgery was successful on his left eye, it was not successful for the right eye. He had swelling in his cornea.
He could only see shapes and light with his right eye, which drooped. It was really not what you would call vision, he said. It affected his depth perception and gave him headaches.
A specialist in Indianapolis had told him he would need a cornea transplant, which had a 60 percent success rate.
He worried about the risks and feared permanent damage, including possible blindness, in his right eye.
He was upset and afraid. I was not making a lot of headway in dealing with it, he said.
One day, when he was returning from a meeting at Providence Center, he heard organ music from the church and decided to go inside and pray.
He told God, I try not to bother you with a whole lot of things but Im not going to get through this. I need some help.
This is not some event from the distant past. This is now! The media always love the 'unexplicable' and jumped all over McCord's story. CNN even took it to a new level by producing a mini documentary in which their professional consultants interviewed McCord on videotape, while re-producing the blurred images of McCord prior to the 'intervention' of Mother Theodore.
This is just one of countless miracles attributed to the intervention of those on the path to sainthood and others who have already arrived.
This is a caucus thread, so if I step out of line, just say and I'll go.
But, this is a fascinating topic for me.
In the article you linked to, Mr. McCord prayed to Mother Guerin only to be later "upset and afraid."
Next, he appealed directly to God, and that worked. ("He told God, ...")
Friend, I cannot dispute that a miracle occurred, I only question the chain of command.
And, from the article ....
McCord, who has a dry sense of humor, said a friend told him, Mother Theodore and God talked it over and decided it was easier to fix my eye than to make me courageous.McCord had never before prayed to Mother Theodore before his problems with his eye, but since his cure, he has conversations thanking her every day.
As I noted above, this is a very difficult concept for many non-Catholics to grasp, yet, the earliest christians had no problem understanding that they were members of a much larger family - the Communion of Saints. Just as you pray for your friends and family here on earth, the saints pray for you, in heaven.
Remember, we pray to the saints and ASK THEM to intercede for us -- pray for us. They are much closer to Christ than we are.
You are so right about the description of the incense and prayers rising to heaven from Revelation. Isn't that a powerful picture?
The Early Church Fathers on The Church (Catholic Caucus)
Early Church Fathers on (Oral) Tradition - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Apostolic Succession - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Purgatory - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Salvation Outside the Church [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
The Early Church Fathers on Marys Perpetual Virginity - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on The Primacy of Peter/Rome (Catholic/Orthodox Caucus)
The Early Church Fathers on Hell - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Intercession of the Saints - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
One of the most beautiful concepts I could think of.
Their inability to do anything about it is what got hammered into me in childhood and what I am now confronting as "Ancestor Worship."
Forgive me.
This has not been easy.
It is an overpowering picture.
Yes ... I understand. You are not alone. These misunderstandings are the reason why I am posting this series of threads on the Early Church Fathers.
There is no need to ask for forgiveness ... absolutely none. This is a learning experience for all of us.
No, I don't, I'm sorry to say.
It is.
Revelation
Chapter 8
1
1 When he broke open the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven 2 for about half an hour.
2
And I saw that the seven angels who stood before God were given seven trumpets.
3
Another angel came and stood at the altar, 3 holding a gold censer. He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the holy ones, on the gold altar that was before the throne.
4
The smoke of the incense along with the prayers of the holy ones went up before God from the hand of the angel.
BTTT!
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