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The Early Church Fathers on The Mother of God - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
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Posted on 02/17/2007 4:17:16 PM PST by NYer

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Please allow a few minutes to post the Scriptural Basis for this thread. Thank you!
1 posted on 02/17/2007 4:17:20 PM PST by NYer
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To: Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...

In keeping with guidelines posted by the Religion Moderator, we are posting this thread (and future ones) a series on the Early Church Fathers, as a Catholic/Orthodox Caucus. Protestants are welcome to post comments but restraint from attacks, would be appreciated. This thread is posted to inform, support and defend the historic orgins of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches.

2 posted on 02/17/2007 4:18:32 PM PST by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: All


Scripture


I. The Uniqueness of Mary as the Mother of God

Gen. 3:15 - we see from the very beginning that God gives Mary a unique role in salvation history. God says "I will put enmity between you and the woman, between your seed and her seed." This refers to Jesus (the "emnity") and Mary (the "woman"). The phrase "her seed" (spermatos) is not seen elsewhere in Scripture.

Gen 3:15 / Rev. 12:1 - the Scriptures begin and end with the woman battling satan. This points to the power of the woman with the seed and teaches us that Jesus and Mary are the new Adam and the new Eve.

John 2:4, 19:26 - Jesus calls Mary "woman" as she is called in Gen. 3:15. Just as Eve was the mother of the old creation, Mary is the mother of the new creation. This woman's seed will crush the serpent's skull.

Isaiah 7:14; Matt. 1:23 - a virgin (the Greek word used is "parthenos") will bear a Son named Emmanuel, which means "God is with us." John 1:14 - God in flesh dwelt among us. Mary is the Virgin Mother of God.

Matt. 2:11 - Luke emphasizes Jesus is with Mary His Mother, and the magi fall down before both of them, worshiping Jesus.

Luke 1:35 - the child will be called holy, the Son of God. Mary is the Mother of the Son of God, or the Mother of God (the "Theotokos").

Luke 1:28 - "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you." These are the words spoken by God and delivered to us by the angel Gabriel (who is a messenger of God). Thus, when Catholics recite this verse while praying the Rosary, they are uttering the words of God.

Luke 1:28 - also, the phrase "full of grace" is translated from the Greek word "kecharitomene." This is a unique title given to Mary, and suggests a perfection of grace from a past event. Mary is not just "highly favored." She has been perfected in grace by God. "Full of grace" is only used to describe one other person - Jesus Christ in John 1:14.

Luke 1:38 - Mary's fiat is "let it be done to me according to thy word." Mary is the perfect model of faith in God, and is worthy of our veneration.

Luke 1:42 - "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus." The phrase "blessed are you among women" really means "you are most blessed of all women." A circumlocution is used because there is no superlative in the Greek language. Note also that Elizabeth praises Mary first, and then Jesus. This is hyperdulia (but not latria which is worship owed to God alone). We too can go through Mary to praise Jesus. Finally, Catholics repeat these divinely inspired words of Elizabeth in the Rosary.

Luke 1:43 - Elizabeth's use of "Mother of my Lord" (in Hebrew, Elizabeth used "Adonai" which means Lord God) is the equivalent of "Holy Mary, Mother of God" which Catholics pray in the Rosary. The formula is simple: Jesus is a divine person, and this person is God. Mary is Jesus' Mother, so Mary is the mother of God (Mary is not just the Mother of Jesus' human nature - mothers are mothers of persons, not natures).

Luke 1:44 - Mary's voice causes John the Baptist to leap for joy in Elizabeth's womb. Luke is teaching us that Mary is our powerful intercessor.

Luke 1:46 - Mary claims that her soul magnifies the Lord. This is a bold statement from a young Jewish girl from Nazareth. Her statement is a strong testimony to her uniqueness. Mary, as our Mother and intercessor, also magnifies our prayers.

Luke 1:48 - Mary prophesies that all generations shall call her blessed, as Catholics do in the "Hail Mary" prayer. What Protestant churches have existed in all generations (none), and how many of them call Mary blessed with special prayers and devotions?

Gal. 4:4 - God sent His Son, born of a woman, to redeem us. Mary is the woman with the redeemer. By calling Mary co-redemptrix, we are simply calling Mary "the woman with the redeemer." This is because "co" is from the Latin word "cum" which means "with." Therefore, "co-redemptrix" means "woman with the redeemer." Mary had a unique but subordinate role to Jesus in salvation.

Eph. 1:1; Phil. 1:1; Col. 1:2 - the word "saints" (in Hebrew "qaddiysh") means "holy" ones. So Mary is called Holy, the greatest Saint of all.

Luke 2:35 - Simeon prophesies that a sword would also pierce Mary's soul. Mary thus plays a very important role in our redemption. While Jesus' suffering was all that we needed for redemption, God desired Mary to participate on a subordinate level in her Son's suffering, just as he allows us to participate through our own sufferings.

Luke 2:19,51 - Mary kept in mind all these things as she pondered them in her heart. Catholics remember this by devoting themselves to Mary's Immaculate Heart and all the treasures and wisdom and knowledge contained therein.

3 posted on 02/17/2007 4:20:08 PM PST by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: All

Mother of the Light

4 posted on 02/17/2007 4:28:53 PM PST by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: NYer
For what it's worth re: "enmity" does not mean "Jesus" as in the quote above

Noun

enmity

1. The quality of being an enemy; hostile or unfriendly disposition.
2. A state or feeling of opposition, hostility, hatred or animosity.

Quotations

* 1611: King James Version of the Bible (Authorized Version), Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Synonyms: hostility, antagonism, animosity, rancor, antipathy, animus

5 posted on 02/17/2007 4:34:26 PM PST by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: NYer; Kolokotronis
Thus, when Catholics recite this verse while praying the Rosary, they are uttering the words of God.

Gabriel cannot speak for himself? Other angels do so here and there in Scripture.

6 posted on 02/17/2007 5:14:22 PM PST by Enosh (†)
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To: NYer

"A circumlocution is used because there is no superlative in the Greek language."

There most certainly is! Where did this quote come from?


7 posted on 02/17/2007 6:07:18 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Enosh; NYer

NYer: "Thus, when Catholics recite this verse while praying the Rosary, they are uttering the words of God."

E: "Gabriel cannot speak for himself? Other angels do so here and there in Scripture."

I must say, NYer, I have never, ever heard this interpretation of the words of the Arkangel Gabriel. Once again, where does this quote come from? To attribute these words of the angel to God Himself is just the sort of odd religious enthusiasm which leads to the whole "co-redemptrix" heretical talk current among certain Latin fringe groups.


8 posted on 02/17/2007 6:11:49 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

Oopsie!


10 posted on 02/17/2007 7:01:05 PM PST by Enosh (†)
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To: AmericaUnited; Religion Moderator

This is a caucus thread. If you don't know what that entails, look at the Religion Moderator's profile.


11 posted on 02/17/2007 7:07:42 PM PST by Pyro7480 ("Jesu, Jesu, Jesu, esto mihi Jesus" -St. Ralph Sherwin's last words at Tyburn)
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: AmericaUnited; Religion Moderator
These are “safe harbors” for those who are easily offended or are ill equipped to defend their own confession.

It is sufficient to say that caucus/devotional threads aren't merely for the purposes stated above.

15 posted on 02/17/2007 7:54:48 PM PST by Pyro7480 ("Jesu, Jesu, Jesu, esto mihi Jesus" -St. Ralph Sherwin's last words at Tyburn)
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: AmericaUnited

Read post #3.


17 posted on 02/17/2007 8:05:52 PM PST by Pyro7480 ("Jesu, Jesu, Jesu, esto mihi Jesus" -St. Ralph Sherwin's last words at Tyburn)
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To: NYer

Faith-sharing bump.


18 posted on 02/17/2007 8:06:30 PM PST by Ciexyz (Amazing Grace the film, in theaters Feb 23rd, about abolishing slave trade in Britain.)
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To: Kolokotronis

**I must say, NYer, I have never, ever heard this interpretation of the words of the Arkangel Gabriel**

It's a new one on me too!


19 posted on 02/17/2007 9:01:50 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: AmericaUnited

Ark of the Old Covenant was held in the holy of holies and untouched by human hands.

Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant. And she too was untouched by human hands -- so to speak since Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit.

"And the word was made flesh."

"Hail Mary full of grace." Luke


20 posted on 02/17/2007 9:05:34 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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