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To: Kolokotronis; Mad Dawg; ichabod1

Present form:
"God, the Father of mercies, through the death and resurrection of his Son has reconciled the world to himself and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins; through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace, and I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen."

"Traditional" form:
Absolution: "Dominus noster Jesus Christus te absolvat; et ego auctoritate ipsius te absolvo ab omni vinculo excommunicationis (sespensionis) et interdicti in quantum possum et tu indiges. [making the Sign of the Cross:] Deinde, ego te absolvo a peccatis tuis in nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen."

Translation: "May our Lord Jesus Christ absolve you; and by His authority I absolve you from every bond of excommunication and interdict, so far as my power allows and your needs require. [making the Sign of the Cross:] Thereupon, I absolve you of your sins in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Amen."

Post-absolution prayer: "Passio Domini nostri Jesu Christi, merita Beatae Mariae Virginis et omnium sanctorum, quidquid boni feceris vel mail sustinueris sint tibi in remissionem peccatorum, augmentum gratiae et praemium vitae aeternae."

Translation: "May the Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ, the merits of the Blessed Virgin Mary and of all the saints obtain for you that whatever good you do or whatever evil you bear might merit for you the remission of your sins, the increase of grace and the reward of everlasting life."





I don't see how either form suggests that "Grace" is created.


108 posted on 03/29/2007 12:33:10 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

"I don't see how either form suggests that "Grace" is created."

After Great Lent, and since this seems to come up from time to time, I'll post a C/O caucus thread about the created/uncreated grace issue so we can get into it in detail. The issue is with the "Absolvo te" and and that absolution is from the Church. The words of absolution in confession are just a single example. Really the apparent lack of an epiklesis in some Latin Rite Liturgies is a better example of what I am talking about as is the Latin "Treasury of Merit" concept. Let's discuss all of this after Pascha. It will be interesting if a bit arcane.


109 posted on 03/29/2007 12:59:12 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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