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Dr. Francis Beckwith Returns To Full Communion With The Church
Typepad ^ | May 4, 2007 | Jimmy Akin

Posted on 05/04/2007 8:40:45 AM PDT by NYer

Dr. Francis Beckwith, the president of the Evangelical Theological Society, has become Catholic. Dr. Beckwith was raised Catholic but became an Evangelical Protestant in youth. After a review of Catholic theology and its basis, however, he has been reconciled with the Church.

I recently learned of Dr. Beckwith's intention to pursue reconciliation. Apparently my own humble writings were of use to him in his journey, and he was kind enough to say so. In view of the sensitivity of the situation, however, I of course agreed to refrain from making the matter publicly known. He also was kind enough to let me know just before he went to the sacrament of reconciliation.

Last night I received a note from Dr. Beckwith indicating that the matter had become public, and so I would like to offer warm felicitations regarding his return to full communion with the Church.

The source through which the matter was made public happened to be James White's blog, and as you can imagine, Mr. White is not happy.

In particular Mr. White raises the question of what Dr. Beckwith will do given his present status as head of the Evangelical Theological Society.

Prior to his reconciliation, Dr. Beckwith shared his thoughts on that matter with me, and though I will let him speak for himself on the subject, I will say that he intends to handle the matter in a gracious and frank manner and has already taken steps in that direction.

On his blog, Mr. White questions whether Dr. Beckwith could remain a member of the Evangelical Theological Society, writing as follows:

Let's ponder the hypothetical situation of a President of the Evangelical Theological Society converting to Roman Catholicism in the midst of his tenure. In 1998 I attended the national meeting of the ETS in Orlando, Florida. At one of the sessions some of the founding members were being asked questions about why they did certain things, why they wrote the statement of faith as they did, etc. A woman asked a question of the panel. "Why did you write 'the Bible alone' in the statement of faith?" The ETS statement of faith is very, very short. It reads:

"The Bible alone, and the Bible in its entirety, is the Word of God written and is therefore inerrant in the autographs. God is a Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, each an uncreated person, one in essence, equal in power and glory."

Roger Nicole rose, slowly, and made his way to the podium. He looked out at the lady and said, "Because we didn't want any Roman Catholics in the group." He then turned around and went back to his seat. While most sat in stunned silence, I and a friend with me broke into wild applause. The brevity of the response, and Nicole's dead-pan look, was classic. Most looked at us like we were nuts, but we appreciated what he said. Here, one of the founding members made it clear that the ETS was founded as a Protestant organization and that primary to their own self-understanding was a belief in sola scriptura.

Mr. White is correct about the text of the ETS statement of faith or "doctrinal foundation." It's found online here.

While the ultimate interpretation of this statement is up to the ETS itself, I would point out two things:

1) The statement of a single founder, such as Dr. Nicole, regarding the interpretation of such a statement is analogous to that of a single founding father regarding the interpretation of the U.S. Constitution. In other words, it is not of itself conclusive, however enthusiastically Mr. White and his friend might receive it.

2) If the founders of the ETS intended to exclude Catholics from the organization, they did not frame their doctrinal foundation in a way that would, in fact, block Catholics from being able to agree to it.

The Bible and the Bible alone is the word of God written (as opposed to the Word of God Incarnate, the word of God in nature, or the word of God handed on through the Church in parallel to Scripture). Only Scripture is divinely inspired such that every assertion of the sacred authors is asserted by the Holy Spirit. Consequently, the Bible is inerrant in the autographs. And, of course, God is a Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, each an uncreated person, one in essence, equal in power and glory.

There is thus nothing in the ETS doctrinal foundation that a Catholic could not agree to in good conscience and it is not an effective instrument for excluding Catholics from membership.

This situation will, of course, be very sensitive for members of the Evangelical Theological Society and its leadership, as well as for Dr. Beckwith and his family, and I ask readers to keep the matter in prayer.

At the hour I write, Dr. Beckwith has not posted on Right Reason, a blog in which he participates, regarding his return to full communion, and I do not know if he will do so, but I invite my readers to watch that blog for possible updates and to offer their felicitations to Dr. Beckwith in the combox below.

VISIT RIGHT REASON.

DR. BECKWITH'S HOME PAGE.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Evangelical Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: beckwith; guinnessisgoodforyou
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1 posted on 05/04/2007 8:40:52 AM PDT by NYer
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To: Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...
Welcome Home!
2 posted on 05/04/2007 8:41:38 AM PDT by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: All

Francis J. Beckwith is Associate Professor of Church-State Studies (tenured) at Baylor University  In June 2007 he will join Baylor's philosophy department where he will become Associate Professor of Philosophy. A Fellow and Faculty Affiliate in Baylor's Institute for Studies of Religion (ISR), he served as Associate Director of Baylor's Institute of Church-State Studies from July 2003 until January 2007.  

Born in 1960 in New York City, Professor Beckwith grew up in Las Vegas, Nevada, the eldest of the four children of Harold ("Pat") and Elizabeth Beckwith. He graduated in 1974 from St. Viator's Elementary School and in 1978 from Bishop Gorman High School, where he was a three-sport letterman and a member of the 1978 Nevada State AAA Basketball Championship Team.

A 2002-03 Research Fellow in the James Madison Program in American Ideals and Institutions in the Department of Politics at Princeton University, Professor Beckwith currently serves as a member of Princeton's James Madison Society. He has held full-time faculty appointments at Trinity International University (1997-2002), Whittier College (1996-97), and the University of Nevada, Las Vegas (1989-96).

A graduate of Fordham University (Ph.D. and M.A. in philosophy), he also holds the Master of Juridical Studies (M.J.S.) degree from the Washington University School of Law in St. Louis, where he won a CALI Award for Academic Excellence in Reproductive Control Seminar. His books include (w/ W. L. Craig, J. P. Moreland) To Every One An Answer: A Case for the Christian Worldview (InterVarsity Press, 2004); Law, Darwinism, & Public Education: The Establishment Clause and the Challenge of Intelligent Design (Rowman & Littlefield, 2003); (w/ C. Mosser & P. Owen) The New Mormon Challenge: Responding to the Latest Defenses of a Fast-Growing Movement (HarperCollins/Zondervan, 2002), finalist for the 2003 Gold Medallion Award in theology and doctrine; Do the Right Thing: Readings in Applied Ethics and Social Philosophy, 2/e (Wadsworth, 2002); (w/ G. P. Koukl) Relativism: Feet Firmly Planted in Mid-Air (Baker, 1998); (w/ L. P. Pojman) The Abortion Controversy 25 Years After Roe v. Wade: A Reader, 2/e (Wadsworth, 1998); (w/ T. Jones) Affirmative Action: Social Justice or Reverse Discrimination? (Prometheus, 1997); and Politically Correct Death: Answering the Arguments for Abortion Rights (Baker, 1993), winner of the 1994 Cornerstone Magazine ethics book of the year award.

His forthcoming books include Defending Life: A Moral and Legal Case Against Abortion Choice (Cambridge University Press, 2007) and Is Statecraft Soulcraft?: Politics and Christianity (InterVarsity 2007)

His articles have been published in a number of academic journals including Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy; San Diego Law Review; International Philosophical Quarterly; Nevada Law Journal; Public Affairs Quarterly; Notre Dame Journal of Law, Ethics & Public Policy; Journal of Law & Religion; American Journal of Jurisprudence; Hastings Constitutional Law Quarterly; Chapman Law Review; Journal of Medicine & Philosophy; Social Theory & Practice; Journal of Law, Medicine, & Ethics; Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society; Christian Bioethics; Ethics & Medicine: An International Journal of Bioethics; Journal of Church & State; Human Life Review; Journal of Social Philosophy; Journal of Libertarian Studies; Journal of Medical Ethics; Logos; The Southern Baptist Journal of Theology; and Philosophia Christi.

Professor Beckwith has also contributed to a number of reference works including Encyclopedia of Christian Civilization (Blackwell, forthcoming2008);Encyclopedia of the First Amendment (Congressional Quarterly Press, forthcoming 2007); Encyclopedia of American Civil Liberties (Routledge, forthcoming 2006); Encyclopedia of American Civil Rights & Liberties (Garland, forthcoming 2006); Baker Dictionary of Cults (Baker, forthcoming 2006); Religion: Past and Present, 4/e (English translation of Religion in Geschichte und Gegenwart) (Brill Academic Publishers, forthcoming 2006); Dictionary of Contemporary Religion in the Western World (InterVarsity, 2002); Encyclopedia of Religion in American Politics (Oryx, 1999); and Encyclopedia of Biblical and Christian Ethics, 2/e (Thomas Nelson, 1992).

Among the books in which his articles appear as chapters are Darwin's Nemesis: Phillip Johnson and the Intelligent Design Movement, ed. W. A. Dembski (InterVarsity Press, 2006); Bob Dylan & Philosophy, ed. Carl Porter and Peter Vernezze (Open Court, 2006); What's Wrong?: Applied Ethicists and Their Critics, ed. D. Boonin and G. Oddie (Oxford University Press, 2005); Guide to New Religious Movements 2/e, ed. R. Enroth (InterVarsity Press. 2005); The Rationality of Theism, ed. P. Copan and P. Moser (Routledge, 2003); Bioengagement: Making a Christian Difference Through Bioethics Today, ed. N. Cameron, S. E. Daniels, and B. J. White (Eerdmans, 2000); In Defense of Miracles: A Comprehensive Case For God's Action in History, ed. R. D. Geivett and G. Habermas (InterVarsity, 1997); Philosophy: The Quest for Truth, 3/e, ed. L. Pojman (Wadsworth, 1996); The Silent Subject: Reflections on the Unborn in American Culture, ed. Brad Stetson (Praeger, 1996); Taking Sides: Clashing Views on Controversial Political Issues, 9/e, ed. G. McKenna and S. Feingold (McGraw-Hill, 1995); and Faith in Theory and Practice: Essays on Justifying Religious Belief, ed. E. Radcliffe and C. J. White (Open Court, 1993).

Both colleagues and students have recognized him for teaching excellence. On April 25, 2006 he was awarded a certificate by Baylor's undergraduate journal (The Pulse) for his "outstanding contributions to undergraduate scholarship." In November 2004 he was recognized as a distinguished faculty member by Baylor University`s Mortar Board. The students of Trinity Graduate School (California campus) selected him Professor of the Year for the 1997-98 school year. During his seven years at UNLV he received a 1995 merit award (given by the Multicultural Student Affairs Office of UNLV), a professor of recognition award by the UNLV alumni association (1992), and was a finalist for university-wide and/or college-wide teaching awards in 1996, 1993, 1992, and 1991.

He has presented academic papers, chaired sessions, and offered commentaries at the conferences of a number of professional societies including the American Philosophical Association, the American Political Science Association, the Society of Christian Philosophers, the Evangelical Philosophical Society, the American Bar Association (Science & Technology Section), the Christian Legal Society, the Evangelical Theological Society, the American Academy of Religion, the Southwestern Political Science Association, the University Faculty for Life, and the Conference on Faith and History. He has served on the executive committees of both the Society of Christian Philosophers (1999-2002) and the Evangelical Philosophical Society (1998-2003) as well as on the national board of the University Faculty for Life (1999-present).

On November 17, 2006 Professor Beckwith became the President of the Evangelical Theological Society (ETS), a position that has a one-year term.  He is the 57th president of ETS, an academic society that has over 4,100 members. In July 2005 he began a three-year term as a member of the American Philosophical Association's Committee on Philosophy and Law.

He and his wife, Frankie, live in Woodway, Texas. 


3 posted on 05/04/2007 8:46:47 AM PDT by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: NYer

Best wishes to Mr. Beckwith!


5 posted on 05/04/2007 8:52:02 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("And he had turned the Prime Minister's teacup into a gerbil.")
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To: rrc; NYer

The only times I remember hearing about Catholic clergy and theologians leaving the Church is when they are liberals with heretical views (Matthew Fox comes to mind).


6 posted on 05/04/2007 8:55:29 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: NYer

brave man. God bless him and his family.


7 posted on 05/04/2007 8:56:58 AM PDT by Nihil Obstat (Kyrie Eleison)
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To: NYer
He and his wife, Frankie, live in Woodway, Texas.

Any......er.......offspring?

I may be stretching here, but I'm wondering how Humanae Vitae sits with him. (I realize that medical factors rather than choice may be a factor in childless marriages if they indeed have no children.)

8 posted on 05/04/2007 9:05:49 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: wagglebee

John Dominic Crossnan


9 posted on 05/04/2007 9:42:01 AM PDT by Jaded ("I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."- Joseph Ratzinger)
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To: NYer

We should pray for Mr. White as well as Mr. Beckwith. Isn’t White the same Evangelical blogger who got in to a royal snit about a family member becoming Catholic?


10 posted on 05/04/2007 9:50:27 AM PDT by Jaded ("I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."- Joseph Ratzinger)
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To: NYer

Good to have another big brain in our camp, but I do really think he should resign his position, it is what I would hope someone (Jean Marchant comes to mind) who leaves the Catholic Church would do were they on a Catholic Faculty.

Though Richard McBrien still teaches at Notre Dame doesn’t he......


11 posted on 05/04/2007 10:13:10 AM PDT by Cheverus
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To: NYer
From White's blog: an excerpt almost immediately following the one cited in the article...
Now that just such a high-profile conversion has taken place, prepare yourself for the flood of substance-less "Come Home to Rome" articles. Let me make a prediction: as is so often the case, the very act of conversion, not the reasons for so doing, will be the primary focus. "He's so brilliant, if he converts, he must have a brilliant reason!" There are very few "new" reasons for conversion that have not been fully addressed in the past, and Rome's modern apologists have learned that it is never to their advantage to give air to the replies offered by the most careful of their critics. As any review of the current body of Roman Catholic "conversion stories" will bear out, fair, balanced, insightful representation of the facts related to sola scriptura, Papal primacy, the Mass, the Marian dogmas, purgatory, etc., is utterly lacking. Emotional appeals to "the ancient church," mythical references to the "unity" of Rome (those actually inside the communion and familiar with its rancorous disputes cannot help but chuckle at those blissfully naive, breathless commentaries), and the warm feeling of "coming home" to the Church (almost never anything about conversion to Christ) are the keys to successful conversioneering.

12 posted on 05/04/2007 10:24:05 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: NYer

how happy they must be in Heaven!


13 posted on 05/04/2007 10:36:49 AM PDT by mockingbyrd (peace begins in the womb)
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To: Alex Murphy
As usual, White doesn't have the faintest thing resembling a clue.

those actually inside the communion and familiar with its rancorous disputes cannot help but chuckle at those blissfully naive, breathless commentaries

"Those actually inside the communion" doesn't include James White, so how would he know?

I'm still trying to find these "rancorous disputes" among Catholics who are actually loyal to the magisterium (as distinct from those who are loyal to what they think the magisterium ought to be), and I don't see it. And I've been "actually inside the communion" now for going on 47 years.

and the warm feeling of "coming home" to the Church (almost never anything about conversion to Christ)

Read your own sister's conversion story, James. You know her, she's "Mrs. Bonds" to you.

14 posted on 05/04/2007 10:53:16 AM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: Alex Murphy
never anything about conversion to Christ

Does Mr. White not consider Evangelicals Christian, or does he think the Catholics do not consider Evangelicals Christian?

15 posted on 05/04/2007 11:00:45 AM PDT by annalex
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To: Alex Murphy; Campion
As any review of the current body of Roman Catholic "conversion stories" will bear out, fair, balanced, insightful representation of the facts related to sola scriptura, Papal primacy, the Mass, the Marian dogmas, purgatory, etc., is utterly lacking.

Is this gentleman reading the same literature I am?

A friend to whom I sent several books of apologetics by well-known converts (Mr. Currie, Mr. Ray, Dr. Hahn, etc.) had the opposite complaint! She said, "It's all about analyzing the details of Scriptural texts, historical understanding, ancient documents ... and nothing about their own spiritual and emotional experiences."

16 posted on 05/04/2007 11:01:45 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("And he had turned the Prime Minister's teacup into a gerbil.")
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To: Tax-chick

In all the conversion from Protestantism stories I know, the journey begins with a visit of the Mass, continues with the scripture and the history, and then the candidate struggles with the Catholic spirituality and ecclesiology — that is, Mary, the saints, and papacy.

Conversions from other faiths might be different. Dr. Roy Sholman (sp), a Jewish convert, had Mary appear to him. He did not know who she was...


17 posted on 05/04/2007 11:11:45 AM PDT by annalex
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To: annalex

I agree that a very common factor is the experience of the Mass and the presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

I haven’t read Mr. Schoeman’s story, although I’ve seen his books in the catalog. It sounds fascinating!


18 posted on 05/04/2007 11:15:35 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("And he had turned the Prime Minister's teacup into a gerbil.")
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To: Tax-chick; Alex Murphy
LOL. Yep. Protestants -- at least the ones who are serious intellectuals -- don't convert for emotional reasons. They have to argue themselves in, and they can go over those arguments in excruciating detail.

There usually seems to be a "tipping point" argument, one which they can't refute, can't ignore, and to which they can't conform within a Protestant milieu.

fair, balanced, insightful representation of the facts related to sola scriptura, Papal primacy, the Mass, the Marian dogmas, purgatory, etc., is utterly lacking

That sounds like a fine description of James White's own writings.

Alex, have you read Patty Bonds' conversion story? I mention it because she describes, in some detail, her childhood years as a Baptist pastor's daughter ... how her father, said, from the pulpit, that Rome was the Whore of Babylon and the Pope was the antiChrist ... how her parents forbade her to play with a childhood friend, at least in part because the girl was a Catholic ... that kind of thing?

She and her brother were taught to hate -- and that is the only word that can possibly be accurate -- taught to hate Catholicism and believing Catholics from the time they learned to talk.

19 posted on 05/04/2007 11:16:23 AM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: Campion

That is very sad.


20 posted on 05/04/2007 11:18:23 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("And he had turned the Prime Minister's teacup into a gerbil.")
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To: NYer

From Dr. White’s blog:

Of course, folks like yours truly will ask all the boring questions, like, “How do you escape the circularity of the Roman claims regarding papal infallibility?” or “How can Rome’s claims, built as they were historically, upon such a wide variety of fraudulent documents, stand today in light of her own history?” And more to the point, “Do you really believe you can approach the Mass 20,000 times in your life and still die impure, and that this re-presentation is the same sacrifice as the perfect work you once professed to embrace?” Of course, those are the tough questions, which lead folks back to the inspired Scriptures, and that is the last place The Coming Home Network wants to go.


21 posted on 05/04/2007 11:18:54 AM PDT by Augustinian monk
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To: Tax-chick
I haven’t read Mr. Schoeman’s story

I only heard in on Marcus Grodi radio program.

22 posted on 05/04/2007 11:20:52 AM PDT by annalex
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To: Augustinian monk
Of course, those are the tough questions, which lead folks back to the inspired Scriptures, and that is the last place The Coming Home Network wants to go

ROFLOL until it hurts.

23 posted on 05/04/2007 11:24:17 AM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: Campion
I had believed that Catholic Bishops were Satan's henchmen. They wore those "fish" hats that I had been told were fashioned after a pagan fish god.

Ne Zot! Never, in my 20 years growing up with Presbyterians from Northern Ireland, did I hear anything like that! I'm flummoxed.

24 posted on 05/04/2007 11:24:36 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("And he had turned the Prime Minister's teacup into a gerbil.")
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To: annalex

I listened to him last Monday (or the Monday before) talking to a lady whose husband had been an Episcopal priest. She had a Brooklyn accent just like my stepmother-in-law; it was hysterical.


25 posted on 05/04/2007 11:26:59 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("And he had turned the Prime Minister's teacup into a gerbil.")
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To: Tax-chick
It comes from Alexander Hislop's The Two Babylons, or Papal Worship shown to be the worship of Nimrod and his Wife, a fine intellectual work of scholarship [gagging noises].
26 posted on 05/04/2007 11:27:08 AM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: Campion

Fascinating. I’ll have to make a point of thanking OldTax-lady for being a reasonable and charitable Protestant all her life. (With the exception of certain Irish folks, but that’s political :=).


27 posted on 05/04/2007 11:28:33 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("And he had turned the Prime Minister's teacup into a gerbil.")
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To: Jaded

I agree, he seems very angry and his obvious hatred of the Catholic Church seems a little excessive. Anger, especially constant anger isn’t good for your physical body or your soul.


28 posted on 05/04/2007 11:37:33 AM PDT by tiki
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To: Campion

“There are none so blind....”


29 posted on 05/04/2007 11:54:29 AM PDT by tiki
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To: NYer
I will say that he intends to handle the matter in a gracious and frank manner and has already taken steps in that direction.

Wanting to be frank about it must be why he kept it hidden as long as he could.

30 posted on 05/04/2007 12:09:23 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: tiki

If Mr. White spent as much time actually serving the Lord as he does attacking anyone who doesn’t think like he does, he could do alot of good. It must be really time consuming to be filled with that much hatred.


31 posted on 05/04/2007 12:19:14 PM PDT by Jaded ("I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."- Joseph Ratzinger)
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To: NYer; Cheverus
If the founders of the ETS intended to exclude Catholics from the organization, they did not frame their doctrinal foundation in a way that would, in fact, block Catholics from being able to agree to it.

It is true that the statement of faith can be parsed the Catholic way, but the intent of the framers was probably to exclude the Holy Tradition and magisterial teaching as inerrant, and it can be parsed that way, too. As Catholics, we examine the writer's intent in the scripture; we should do the same with repsect to the ETS foundational texts.

It would be fun for Dr. Beckwith to stay as a member, if only to point out the grotesque nature of the Sola Scriptura superstition. However, in seriousness, he should leave and respect the intent of the document. He certainly should resign as the Society's head, as he had become one under different assumptions. Just my humble opinion.

32 posted on 05/04/2007 12:34:59 PM PDT by annalex
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To: annalex
he should leave and respect the intent of the document. He certainly should resign as the Society's head, as he had become one under different assumptions. Just my humble opinion.

I agree. It would be the polite thing to do.

33 posted on 05/04/2007 1:14:21 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("And he had turned the Prime Minister's teacup into a gerbil.")
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To: Tax-chick
For me, my initial emotional and spiritual experiences occurred when I was a Protestant, the Catholic Church just completed my search for Jesus. I was already a firm believer, I didn't convert to Christianity to become a Catholic, I already was one. I bet it is the same with many of the others. It really became all about Scriptural texts, historical understanding, ancient documents, and they revealed the Truth to me.

Don't get me wrong, I had extreme emotional and spiritual experiences in my journey to the Catholic Church but it was finding the truthes that had evaded me for so many years. You can imagine finding answers to questions that you've had since you could think!

34 posted on 05/04/2007 1:20:14 PM PDT by tiki
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To: tiki

I joined the Catholic Church first, because I knew it was the right thing to do. Then I studied!


35 posted on 05/04/2007 2:49:39 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("And he had turned the Prime Minister's teacup into a gerbil.")
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To: Jaded
Isn’t White the same Evangelical blogger who got in to a royal snit about a family member becoming Catholic?

Yes, his sister, Patty Bonds. Here is her conversion story.

36 posted on 05/04/2007 3:27:47 PM PDT by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: Campion; Alex Murphy; Jaded
As usual, White doesn't have the faintest thing resembling a clue.

Bump to my post to Jaded at #36. White's sister, Patty Bonds, is a convert. Her story is posted there.

37 posted on 05/04/2007 3:31:37 PM PDT by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: Alex Murphy

White is quite wrong in is claim that “ . As any review of the current body of Roman Catholic “conversion stories” will bear out, fair, balanced, insightful representation of the facts related to sola scriptura, Papal primacy, the Mass, the Marian dogmas, purgatory, etc., is utterly lacking. “

I have read numerous accounts of those who have become Catholic, without exception they all examined these doctrines very carefully. They entered into communion after much study and prayer. And most interesting of all is that they all are very grateful for the firm grounding in Scripture that they received in their Protestant churches.
Dr. White is not a charitable man and would not be the Protestant apologist I would hold up as an example.

There are Protestant apologists who I sometimes refer non Catholics to when they have a question about certain doctrine. Mostly when one Protestant has to defend the doctrines of Christ’s divinity and the Trinity against JWs. The Bible Answer Man Hank Hangraeff (sp) of the Christian Research Institute is one such gentleman.


38 posted on 05/04/2007 3:48:08 PM PDT by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: annalex; Tax-chick; franky1; Campion
Dr. Roy Sholman (sp), a Jewish convert, had Mary appear to him. He did not know who she was...

On the contrary; he recognized her immediately!

Yet every night before going to sleep, I would say a short prayer to know the name of my Lord and Master and God whom I had met on the beach.  A year to the day after the initial experience, I went to sleep after saying that prayer, and felt as though I was woken by a gentle hand on my shoulder, and escorted to a room where I was left alone with the most beautiful young woman I could imagine.  I knew without being told that she was the Blessed Virgin Mary.  I felt entirely awake (and my memory is as though I had been awake), although I was dreaming.  I remember my first reaction, standing there awed by her presence and grandeur, was wishing I knew at least the Hail Mary so that I could honor her!

TC - here is Roy Schoeman's amazing conversion story.

Roy Schoeman Conversion Story

I strongly encourage everyone to read his book - Salvation Is From The Jews . It provides such great insight into the Catholic faith from a Jew educated in the Talmud. Mr. Schoeman also addresses a question that has plagued me for years. He writes:

Both Matthew and Mark explicitly mention Jesus' silence as well as the underlying motive of envy. From Matthew 27:12-18:

"But when he was accused by the chief priests and elders, he made no answer. Then Pilate said to him, "Do you not hear how many things they testify against you?" But he gave him no answer, not even to a single charge; so that the governor wondered greatly ... For he knew that it was out of envy that they had delivered him up."

Mr. Schoeman points to the Lemann brothers (also Jewish converts) who made the touching point that Jesus' silence before the High Priest was motivated by His profound respect for the office of the Jewish Priesthood. Mosaic law forbids compelling a witness to testify against himself. It was because Jesus did not want to put the High Priest in the position of sinning against that law that He refused to answer the High Priest's questions even though beaten for it. (John 18:19-23) which he then quotes. Jesus acquiesced only when the High Priest ordered Him to answer in the name of God.

This is extraordinary! I am not familiar with Mosaic law and could never have figured this out. Can you imagine! Here is the sinless Son of God respecting Jewish laws so as not to cause his accuser to sin!

39 posted on 05/04/2007 3:50:16 PM PDT by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: proud_2_B_texasgal; DarthVader

Here is an excellent example of what I meant when I said that Catholics who join the Evangelical Church eventually return to their roots. It is the Sacraments conferred by Jesus Christ, that draw them back home.


40 posted on 05/04/2007 3:53:08 PM PDT by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: Augustinian monk; Campion
which lead folks back to the inspired Scriptures, and that is the last place The Coming Home Network wants to go

White must not have seen this.

-A8

41 posted on 05/04/2007 3:53:42 PM PDT by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: NYer; Tax-chick; franky1; Campion
I knew without being told that she was the Blessed Virgin Mary

Yes; my memory was faulty. My apologies to everyone involved.

42 posted on 05/04/2007 4:07:40 PM PDT by annalex
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To: Campion; Alex Murphy
Alex, have you read Patty Bonds' conversion story?

See post #36.

43 posted on 05/04/2007 4:38:30 PM PDT by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: rrc
is there any way to find out how many catholic theologians of big name catholic schools convert to any protestant denominations? i bet the number is miniscule in comparison.

Unfair comparison that only makes our Church look spineless. If our bishops took the trouble to throw out all the heretics in Catholic universities who still call themselves Catholic theologians, the Protestants would have plenty of folks to point to.

44 posted on 05/04/2007 4:56:36 PM PDT by old and tired
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To: NYer
Here is an excellent example of what I meant when I said that Catholics who join the Evangelical Church eventually return to their roots.

Well, since ya pinged me over..

Theres' ........... ONE.

In all seriousness.. he has a right to choose to stay or go wherever he wants. The statement that "Catholics who join the Evangelical Church eventually return to their roots" is FALSE.

SOME do .. not all. And I know MANY personally.

Thanks for the ping .. I think.

45 posted on 05/04/2007 5:07:18 PM PDT by proud_2_B_texasgal
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To: NYer

I went and read Schoeman’s story and all I can say is WOW!


46 posted on 05/04/2007 6:00:00 PM PDT by tiki
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Comment #47 Removed by Moderator

To: tiki
I went and read Schoeman’s story and all I can say is WOW!

Amazing, isn't it! He has appeared twice as a guest on The Journey Home.

I am not a great reader but I could not put down his book, Salvation is from the Jews. Highly recommend it.

48 posted on 05/04/2007 11:15:12 PM PDT by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: NYer
Mosaic law forbids compelling a witness to testify against himself.

Do you have a Biblical cite for that statement?

49 posted on 05/05/2007 1:11:04 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: NYer

Thanks for putting up the link - that’s a tremendous story!


50 posted on 05/05/2007 4:38:17 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("And he had turned the Prime Minister's teacup into a gerbil.")
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