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The Reality of Romanism
The Riddleblog ^ | May 10, 2007 | Kim Riddlebarger

Posted on 05/17/2007 10:08:04 AM PDT by Gamecock

Reading Francis Beckwith's interview with David Neff in Christianity Today, reminded me of how idyllic the Roman church can seem in the minds of those who embrace it (Click here: Q&A: Francis Beckwith | Christianity Today | A Magazine of Evangelical Conviction).

But then this news report appeared today which gives a much different picture of the supposed glories of Romanism (Click here: Pope to canonize first Brazilian saint - Yahoo! News).

All discussion of justification, the authority of Scripture, and reciting the Creed aside, the Pope is heading to Brazil to canonize Antonio de Sant'Anna Galvao, a Franciscan monk who is credited with 5000 miraculous healings. Over 1 million people are expected to be in attendance. The healings supposedly come as a result of swallowing rice paper pills prepared by the monk over two hundred years ago. According to the AP news report . . .

"The Vatican has officially certified the medical cases of two Brazilian women as divinely inspired miracles that justify the sainthood of Galvao. Both of these women spoke of their faith with The Associated Press, claiming that their children would not be alive today were it not for the tiny rice-paper pills that Friar Galvao handed out two centuries ago.

Although the friar died in 1822, the tradition is carried on by Brazilian nuns who toil in the Sao Paulo monastery where Galvao is buried, preparing thousands of the Tic Tac-sized pills distributed free each day to people seeking cures for all manner of ailments. Each one is inscribed with a prayer in Latin: `After birth, the Virgin remained intact. Mother of God, intercede on our behalf.'

Sandra Grossi de Almeida, 37, is one such believer. She had a uterine malformation that should have made it impossible for her to carry a child for more than four months. But in 1999, after taking the pills, she gave birth to Enzo, now 7. `I have faith," Grossi said, pointing to her son. I believe in God, and the proof is right here.'

Nearly 10 years before that, Daniela Cristina da Silva, then 4 years old, entered a coma and suffered a heart attack after liver and kidney complications from hepatitis A. `The doctors told me to pray because only a miracle could save her,' Daniela's mother Jacyra said recently. `My sister sneaked into the intensive care unit and forced my daughter to swallow Friar Galvao's pills.'"

So, if you "return home" to Rome, you get the whole ball of wax, including the beatification of saints who give out Tic-Tac size rice-paper pills which supposedly heal. And Pope Benedict XVI will be there to bless it all.

By the way, confessional Protestants affirm the historical evangelical doctrine of justification by grace alone, through faith alone, on account of Christ alone, and the full authority of Scripture. And yes, we even recite the Creed every Lord's Day and we use a biblical-text based liturgy which is quite similar to that described by Justin Martyr in the second century.

Too bad Dr. Beckwith didn't consider a confessional Protestant church before embracing Romanism. Now he's stuck with Antonio de Sant'Anna Galvao and his rice-paper healing pills.

TOPICS: Catholic; Charismatic Christian; General Discusssion; Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS: anticatholic; catholic; catholiclist; kimriddlebarger; papists; popish; rcc; riddlebarger; romancatholic; romanish; romanism; saywhat; sneering
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To: adiaireton8

Not Romes.

341 posted on 05/18/2007 1:22:15 PM PDT by Risky-Riskerdo
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To: adiaireton8
Why don't you believe those church fathers I just cited who all condemned praying to angels, spirits of those who have departed life on earth, but rather taught emphatically to pray to GOD AND GOD ALONE?

Why don't you believe them?

It seems that practice had crept in, being taught by Celsus, which motivated Origen to write against it. Alas, it came back in the Roman religion.

342 posted on 05/18/2007 1:32:06 PM PDT by Risky-Riskerdo
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To: GoLightly


343 posted on 05/18/2007 1:35:34 PM PDT by GoLightly
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To: Risky-Riskerdo

>> Are you denying that Roman popes have not been found to be heretics? <<

One council found that a pope (Liberius?) in the 4th century anathematized a previous pope, and a heresy they believed him to have promulgated. The pope in question, however, was imprisoned by Rome (Constantinus?), and likely did not sign the proclamation of his own free will. Therefore, it is highly questionnable whether the pope had truly held false doctrine, or committed the sin of caving into ungodly secular forces.

>> You can also include Phillip Schaff, whom Roman Catholics are fond of citing when they think Schaff supports RC positions. <<

Ah, yes... Philip Schaff. He was tried for heresy for holding positions which were “too Catholic.” Then, he reaches far more counter-Catholic positions, and continues to secure cooshy jobs. While I can see why Catholics may cite his early conclusions, he is not the best candidate for an appeal to authority, when citing his later counter-Catholic positions.

I’m trying to think who are you going to cite next in a race for less credible theologians, Howard Dean, Leon Trotsky, or Jim Jones?

344 posted on 05/18/2007 1:43:29 PM PDT by dangus
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To: Risky-Riskerdo
Not Romes.

You didn't answer the question. I didn't ask you whose interpretation of Scripture is *not* authoritative. I asked you whose interpretation of Scripture *is* authoritative.


345 posted on 05/18/2007 2:01:45 PM PDT by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: Risky-Riskerdo
Bad misquoting!

Here's Origin, uncensored

For to invoke angels without having obtained a knowledge of their nature greater than is possessed by men, would be contrary to reason...But because Celsus has not read our holy Scriptures, he gives himself an answer as if it came from us, saying that we "assert that the angels who come down from heaven to confer benefits on mankind are a different race from the gods," and adds that "in all probability they would be called demons by us:" not observing that the name "demons" is not a term of indifferent meaning like that of "men," among whom some are good and some bad, nor yet a term of excellence like that of "the gods," which is applied not to wicked demons, or to statues, or to animals, but (by those who know divine things) to what is truly divine and blessed; whereas the term "demons" is always applied to those wicked powers, freed from the encumbrance of a grosser body, who lead men astray, and fill them with distractions and drag them down from God and supercelestial thoughts to things here below.

What Origin is condemning is praying to a pagan god, which Celsus has supposed may be angels, for fear such "angels" are, in fact, demons. The chapters are very short, and this context should become quite plain from chapters 2 to 5. In chapters 8 through 9, again, Origin criticizes bowing to angels, but here it is plain he is referring to astrology. "Angels" simply means "messengers," and the "messengers" Irenaeus refers to are not Gabriel or Michael, but stars and planets, including one planet known to Romans as Lucifer.

346 posted on 05/18/2007 2:06:17 PM PDT by dangus
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To: Running On Empty; Frank Sheed
In a certain sense, the “truth” (about this thread) has been revealed.



347 posted on 05/18/2007 2:35:44 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: adiaireton8

..........[crickets chirping].............

348 posted on 05/18/2007 3:38:23 PM PDT by Frank Sheed (Dead Ráibéad.... Lifelong Irish Papist!)
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To: Running On Empty; Alex Murphy; HarleyD; Gamecock

I think the thread has been very informative — even all the removed comments.

I don’t know whose they were, but I have a good idea.

349 posted on 05/18/2007 4:10:15 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Risky-Riskerdo

Meant to ping you, too, and thank you for your very enlightening comments. I’ve learned a lot.

350 posted on 05/18/2007 4:12:45 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: dangus

Where was the seat of secular power at that time, over the location where he was located?

351 posted on 05/18/2007 5:26:04 PM PDT by GoLightly
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To: timer

When was John the Baptist born?

352 posted on 05/18/2007 5:27:19 PM PDT by GoLightly
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To: Risky-Riskerdo

Outstanding post. In all the years I’ve been on such threads, I don’t think I’ve ever seen Origen’s condemnation of Celsus and the practice of praying to the dead before.

353 posted on 05/18/2007 6:33:36 PM PDT by George W. Bush
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To: dangus
including one planet known to Romans as Lucifer

You are probably aware that is the planet Venus. I always thought it was interesting to read about Bishop Lucifer and his Luciferian heretics also. A fascinating little excursion into the ancient politics of the then-aborning Roman church.
354 posted on 05/18/2007 6:37:03 PM PDT by George W. Bush
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To: GoLightly

Now there’s an interesting question. From the biblical accounts Mary and Elizabeth were cousins and pregnant at the same time, although Elizabeth was closer to term than Mary, so John must have been born in the autumn; but somehow escaped the “slaughter of the innocents” too.

As to John, he seems to have been something like an essene, goat hair coat and honey/locusts for breakfast/lunch/dinner. His “essene-ness” must have rubbed off somewhat on Jesus because he immediately went on his 40 day fast after the baptism. Long fasting periods were an “essene” kind of thing. As cousins they probably knew each other well. It was John’s ministry that, in part at least, inspired our lord Jesus into the calling of ministry/missionary work too.

The key phrase, to me, is “and the angels ministered unto him” after the temptations of satan. To most that just means they fed him food. I believe it means FAR more than that, can you guess what it REALLY means?

355 posted on 05/18/2007 7:04:00 PM PDT by timer (n/0=n=nx0)
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To: GoLightly

When was John the Baptist born? We don’t know except that it was before Jesus.

356 posted on 05/18/2007 7:20:13 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: George W. Bush

Yes, the bearer of light. In Greek, “Phosphorus.”

357 posted on 05/18/2007 10:25:45 PM PDT by dangus
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To: Risky-Riskerdo
Only if a legitimate church and only if the church is not teaching false doctrine and other teachings contrary to God, which the Roman religion does.

And I suppose Risky-Riskerdo here in 2007 has the authority to make such a determination? That he is somehow protected from error in deciding that?

The minute you take infallibility from the Church you end up putting it on yourself.

358 posted on 05/19/2007 5:03:01 AM PDT by Claud
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To: Risky-Riskerdo
Will you drop the Roman pretense of papal supremacy when I present the quotes? Yes or no?

Presentation of quotes ain't enough...there's an element of convincing that has to be done. :)

Fire at will.

359 posted on 05/19/2007 5:06:32 AM PDT by Claud
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To: Risky-Riskerdo
Irrelevant. George Washington never claimed to be the one, true, only church or the supreme leader of not only the church but the temporal world too.

Not irrelevant at all. It was claimed that devotion to St. Christopher showed the falsity of the Roman Church because of the dubious legends that grew around him. The same exact argument could be made of any historical personage, Washington or anyone else.

It is a misapplication of the historical method, and a bad claim.

360 posted on 05/19/2007 5:12:09 AM PDT by Claud
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